Sharing Road Space: Drivers and Cyclists as Equal Road Users

[orbiter]

The reality is I think that we will never be treat like traffic the same as cars. To think we will is unrealistic. We are the slower and smaller and will always be treat that way. The trick is to adapt to it and not try to force our wishes on to other vehicles. Its more enjoyable and relaxing that way.

Just home from a few days in Amsterdam I find that that a sad attitude - and wrong, as 'slow' (in towns? I don't think so!) and small doesn't matter there. OK, there are zillions more cyclists there and the laws are different but it shows what's possible.

I like relaxed cycling too but occasionally have to force my wishes on other vehicles for my own safety; ditto when in my car.

Pete

 

[Twanger]

It's been five weeks since I started commuting by bike again. So far I have been cut up more by other cyclists than by drivers. I am particularly thinking of the girl who overtook me from the inside just by Waterloo station, almost pushing me into a bus, last week. Just pushed through. I was nothing but an obstacle. Some cyclists seem to think that as cyclists they de facto have the moral high ground. However a cyclist who behaves like a **** on the road is no better in any way that a driver who does the same.

At the junction of Brixton Road and Kennington Park Road there are always a couple of cyclists who jump the lights and saunter out over the road. Not now and then. Every single morning for the past five weeks. And on the return journey, turning into Kennington Park Road from Kennington Road, I almost always have to stop at the lights. I am always passed by riders who form a "sandbar of idiocy" out into the road. And when the lights change, and the peloton starts over to turn right into the bus lane towards clapham and Brixton there is always a guy jumping the lights from the left, going into the lane we are all going into, and that is not just discourteous, it is dangerous.

Now I haven't driven for six years, and I have never driven in this country. But in the last five weeks I can say that, at least in Lambeth, cyclists use the road much more carelessly than drivers. Proportionally speaking.

No amount of harping on about the right to use the road, and complaining about the rudeness of drivers (which I have seen as well, particularly taxi drivers) can conceal the fact that a substantial minority of cyclists shouldn't go anywhere near a road till they learn that commuting is commuting and the tour de France is something else.

Rant over. Sorry.

 

[mm101]

Just like to say i do not condone cyclists jumping red lights. I wonder if the reason so many motorists get hacked off with it is because they'd like to but cannot get away with it.

The majority of motorists routinely speed but you don't hear the moral indignation regarding that - in fact quite the contrary. The wailing and gnashing of teeth whenever another speed trap goes up and or catches people breaking the law of the land always bemuses me. As though speeding is a right and they are somehow a martyr to their creed of speed.

Also the rather worrying illegal mobile use which, in my experience, is flouted by a fairly large proportion of motorists. He without sin and all that...

I am a motorist and a cyclist so have no axe to grind.

 

[thomas]

Just like to say i do not condone cyclists jumping red lights. I wonder if the reason so many motorists get hacked off with it is because they'd like to but cannot get away with it.

I've seen lots of cars jump red lights...and I don't just mean go through on the amber, then quickly just after.

RLJing is naughty, and isn't something I would usually do. I don't do it on my commute, or when just riding in general. Mainly because there it wouldn't actually make me get anywhere any quicker, and it can be nice to have a little break

If I've got a good momentum up I may occasionally be naught and try and nip through on ambers (or just miss by a second). I've only ever once completely ignored a red light, but it was about half 11 at night, no one was around and it was safe to do...other than on Critical Mass, when I must have ignored about 100 red lights (along with 1000 other cyclists)....*waits for abuse*

Someone from the states told me that at night, on some junctions lights just flash amber. This means you can go, but be careful. I think it's quite a good idea, as with some lights, they go around their rotation, but you'd be waiting for 5 minutes for no one else to go, which is pointless.

 

[PBancroft]

I've seen lots of cars jump red lights...and I don't just mean go through on the amber, then quickly just after.

I must confess I've been tempted to conduct a thoroughly non-scientific survey by sitting down at a busy set of lights and counting how many cyclists go through the red, and how many drivers do.

 

[thomas]

I must confess I've been tempted to conduct a thoroughly non-scientific survey by sitting down at a busy set of lights and counting how many cyclists go through the red, and how many drivers do.

I think you'd see more car RLJing on my commute, than cyclists...but it does help when only see about 4 cyclists .

The difference would be, most cars would only just red light jump. Quickly get through on the amber/red change...possibly a few seconds after, where as most cyclist red light jumping is just a complete disregard, just going through red lights as and when you arrive at them.

If I lived in London or a big city I would probably be tempted to ignore reds. I know when I left the Critical Mass I didn't, but I just don't know London that well for cycling.

 

[downfader]

I must confess I've been tempted to conduct a thoroughly non-scientific survey by sitting down at a busy set of lights and counting how many cyclists go through the red, and how many drivers do.

I've done it on a small scale. Drivers did do it more after the lights change, and were more tempted at night where they think people arent looking (I presume obviously). Cyclists were the same but on a smaller scale/percentage of the road group

Just casual notes whilst waiting at bus stops and things. One set of lights I lost count of drivers RLJing this winter though, thats how many did it. That junction was on Bursledon Road in Southampton.