Shimano constant "upgrades" frustration: 105 11 speed

[si_c]

I hadn't considered chain width, but I'm sure you are correct.

Although I'm still surprised it makes a difference, given the front mech just shoves the chain from one side or the other.

The tolerances must be a lot tighter than I realised.

No wonder so many of the damn things rub, even when correctly specced.

It might not make much of a difference in some circumstances - depending on the angle of the chain on a given bike, on the other hand it might be endlessly annoying. I'd think it likely to be more of an issue on bikes where there is no ability to trim the derailleur position hence why I had no problems with a friction setup.

 

[Pale Rider]

Both of my last two bikes with front mechs scraped when under my not very high peak power.

Both factory set-ups, so presumably matching components.

Might have something to do with cheapo frames flexing, but one bike was a £1,000 Cannondale which ought to be reasonable quality.

 

[TheDoctor]

I hate setting up front mechs - there's just too many ways of getting it wrong.
Been running 1x since way before 1x was a thing.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

There's still plenty of 18 and 21 speed stuff being made, so why would mechs become a big issue? Granted we're mainly talking about lower spec stuff, but at the end of the day a mech is a mech. If it shifts your chain, then it's doing it's job. The fact that it might be a basic pressing with a medicre quality of finish and not super light, is neither here nor there. If something works it works. It doesn't have to look pretty.

 

[Blue Hills]

My local bike shop was having problems getting a replacement front mech for a nine speed.

Apparently, there's increasingly fewer available, so they reckon they might be on the way out.

The other point is I didn't realise front mechs were rear speed dependent.

Anyone know why?

trawling back (as I got a new [post alert) - situation moved on since your post and worsened.
economically priced 9 speed bits are now far harder to get hold of with the likes of Rose now behind a wall.
Before that I wouldn't have had any great fears at all.
Luckily I have pretty good stocks but in future I can see myself having to buy some second hand bits.
Chain Reaction/Wiggle pretty bloody useless* - would rather sell me a new bike, dinnerplate rear cassette, an MTB top that looks like drugged disco wear.
* Not too long ago I got some 8 speed front mechs from Rose for about £6.50 each - fat chance of that from Waggle Reaction.

 

[PaulSB]

I'm someone who is anally fussy about the appearance of my bikes. I can be ridiculous I know it. I'm struggling to understand your issue. You say it works well. Is this a visual thing as it does stand proud in the centre? This is a genuine question, not a criticism.

In late autumn my LBS struggled with obtaining a 105 groupset for my new bike. Other than this I've never encountered, via the LBS, an issue with parts.

 

[Pale Rider]

situation moved on since your post and worsened.

I suppose Covid has interrupted parts supply in the same way as it has new bikes.

I've noticed previously that once Shimano stuff goes short, it takes months for supplies to reappear.

There must be a risk that under the new normal in a year or so, some of the older spec bits will not be made again and slip out of the catalogue .

Although while new nine speed bikes are still being sold, one would like to think there will be spares available.

I agree with @SkipdiverJohn, high end/drop bar nine speed components will be the first to go.

Budget/flat bar nine speed stuff should be around for a while.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I agree with SkipdiverJohn, high end/drop bar nine speed components will be the first to go.

Budget/flat bar nine speed stuff should be around for a while.

I was thinking more of the 6/7 speed freewheel based transmissions combined with MTB triples, which are still common on both hybrids and MTB's at the cheaper end of the market. The target customer and pricing of these bikes necessitates the use of relatively simple, low budget drivetrain parts. Having the word Shimano on the chainstay is seen as a selling point, because Shimano is regarded as consistently reliable and trustworthy. Cheapo bikes outsell "good" bikes by a huge factor, so the 6/7 speed MTB-based stuff is here to stay, albeit only in budget spec form.
The riders that will have the problems are those using brifter-shifted cassette transmissions with standards that start to become obsolete. Those who run freewheel based systems, using MTB thumb shifters or friction shifters, should be able to keep their stuff running indefinitely. 5 speed rear ends were on the way out 25 years ago as 6 speed became popular, yet there are plenty of 5 speeds still in regular use. I got hold of a virtually new 7 speed rear wheel with a 14-28T freewheel on it just weeks ago. Such a wheel can be made to fit virtually any 700c/27" frame with a conventional axle. So long as you can shift the chain by some means, the bikes can be kept running.
The OCD brigade who want everything on their bike to be a perfect cosmetic match will be out of luck, but for those riders who don't care about such trivialities, our bikes are going to keep going.

 

[Lovacott]

OK, looks like I've got an R7000, but should have got an FC 5800.

Obviously.

When I bought my new mechs, I couldn't find anything on either of the old mechs to indicate model number.

I can't see anything on the new mechs either?

I've now got in the habit of noting part numbers and critical details of everything I fit so that next time, I should be able to buy what I need more easily.

I'm a bit annoyed about my Shimano Revoshift grip shifters. The older model had a plastic grip but the new one has a rubber boot on it which creeps off the shifter in use. Pain in the arse to be honest.

 

[Lovacott]

I hadn't considered chain width, but I'm sure you are correct.

Although I'm still surprised it makes a difference, given the front mech just shoves the chain from one side or the other.

The tolerances must be a lot tighter than I realised.

No wonder so many of the damn things rub, even when correctly specced.

If your front mech is for 3 x 7 speed setup, the chain will be wider so the mech has to be able to cope with that. More speeds on a cassette means the chain will be thinner and so will the front mech.

It took me a while to find the right front mech for my bike on Amazon. So many parts described incorrectly on there. One was describing a 3 x 7 front mech as "suitable for all road and mountain bikes" which is of course, totally impossible.

I sent the vendor a strongly worded email.

I am a great fan of this kind of thing though. A logical model number which totally describes the purpose of the part.

 

[Blue Hills]

I suppose Covid has interrupted parts supply in the same way as it has new bikes.

I've noticed previously that once Shimano stuff goes short, it takes months for supplies to reappear.

There must be a risk that under the new normal in a year or so, some of the older spec bits will not be made again and slip out of the catalogue .

Although while new nine speed bikes are still being sold, one would like to think there will be spares available.

I agree with @SkipdiverJohn, high end/drop bar nine speed components will be the first to go.

Budget/flat bar nine speed stuff should be around for a while.

I wasn't referring to the covid effect - I'd have to be a bit self involved to raise that as a problem, I was referring to the VAT and customs mess, despite assurances of no non tariff barriers.
Rose was always a great supplier of loads of down to earth bits and bobs for of course there are lots of down to earth german cyclists - I have all sorts of stuff sat in my Rose wishlist including such unfashionable items as adjustable 1 inch stems. 9 speed chainrings etc etc.
I didn't care a sod about Waggle Reaction's market preferences before, and, yes, was confident that the world would continue churning out key 9 speed bits as long as I needed them. And I am a flat bar bod, which as you say makes things a lot simpler. But have you had a look at Waggle Reaction's 9 speed range lately?
All good news for marketing wonks hoping to push folks to 13 speed and beyond at inflated prices.

 

[Blue Hills]

If your front mech is for 3 x 7 speed setup, the chain will be wider so the mech has to be able to cope with that. More speeds on a cassette means the chain will be thinner and so will the front mech.

It took me a while to find the right front mech for my bike on Amazon. So many parts described incorrectly on there. One was describing a 3 x 7 front mech as "suitable for all road and mountain bikes" which is of course, totally impossible.

I sent the vendor a strongly worded email.

I am a great fan of this kind of thing though. A logical model number which totally describes the purpose of the part.

View attachment 570375

well apart from the fact that it should surely also say that it can be used on an 8 speed bike?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I use bar end shifters in friction mode. Works great and I can switch between 9 and 10 speed rear wheels just fine. The 10 speed cassette is quite happy with a 9 speed chain.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

When I bought my new mechs, I couldn't find anything on either of the old mechs to indicate model number.

I can't see anything on the new mechs either?

I've now got in the habit of noting part numbers and critical details of everything I fit so that next time, I should be able to buy what I need more easily.

I'm a bit annoyed about my Shimano Revoshift grip shifters. The older model had a plastic grip but the new one has a rubber boot on it which creeps off the shifter in use. Pain in the arse to be honest.

It wasn't the mech, it was the chain ring.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Is this a visual thing as it does stand proud in the centre?

Yes.

For me, a minor irritation.