Should bikes and cars share the same road

[GrasB]

Don't you think a segregated cycling infrastructure would be nice?

We have a fair number of Dutch researchers here. Interestingly something mentioned over & over when talking about cycling is that it's nice not to have segregated paths everywhere so you don't feel restricted to going down road which have segregation.

I think we've managed to get a rose tinted view of the Dutch system. Yes it has advantages, but then again it seems our system does as well.

Where I think the difference lies is that stories like the one described by @GrasB are rare. I have never been assaulted or threatened with assault by a random pedestrian, but I have been threatened, deliberately driven at, close passed, verbally abused etc many, many times when on my bike by a driver.

I did a quick count up of reported incidents in the local papers over the past 2 months. I admit this is hardly a great survey selection. But at least 2 incidents of cyclists being assaulted by pedestrians was found per week.

Personally I'd much rather see a proper long term tackling of bad/aggressive driving by policing. This wouldn't just help cyclists but also pedestrians & other motorists.

 

[MontyVeda]

So long as we're not forced to use any infrastructure that's put in place... there should be no problem. Shared use paths can be a great alternative to busy main roads, especially for those who just fancy a nice leisurely bike ride to the seaside with their kids.

regarding the OP, yes... cars and bikes should share the road (and they do)... but that's not an argument against segregated cycle routes.

 

[Mugshot]

So long as we're not forced to use any infrastructure that's put in place... there should be no problem. Shared use paths can be a great alternative to busy main roads, especially for those who just fancy a nice leisurely bike ride to the seaside with their kids.

Which puts us right back at driver education, although I do not know for certain I am quite sure that many of the drivers that bellow at me to "GET ON THE CYCLE PATH" are not doing it because they believe it is a safer alternative for me, they are doing it because they believe absolutely that if there is a cycle path available then I should be on it. So if we're going to go to the trouble of educating people about cycle lanes why not just educate them about road use instead?

 

[MontyVeda]

Try riding on a road in The Netherlands when there is a cycle path.

is that an argument for or against... or just an argument?

 

[vickster]

Around me, a lot of driver's have received no education in the UK as to how to drive which I expect doesn't help

Most drivers do seem contrite and apologise for near SMIDSY'ing however, and the aggressive cyclist haters thankfully seem to be a very small minority (and are probably just thugs who wouldn't be bright enough to respond to any sort of driver education)

 

[MontyVeda]

Which puts us right back at driver education, although I do not know for certain I am quite sure that many of the drivers that bellow at me to "GET ON THE CYCLE PATH" are not doing it because they believe it is a safer alternative for me, they are doing it because they believe absolutely that if there is a cycle path available then I should be on it. So if we're going to go to the trouble of educating people about cycle lanes why not just educate them about road use instead?

I'm all for educating ignorant drivers and punishing them for not driving with due care and attention. Most drivers i know haven't looked at the HC since they had driving lessons... which is one reason i believe that the driving test should be periodically retaken in order to retain a driving licence.

 

[raleighnut]

I'm all for educating ignorant drivers and punishing them for not driving with due care and attention. Most drivers i know haven't looked at the HC since they had driving lessons... which is one reason i believe that the driving test should be periodically retaken in order to retain a driving licence.

They'd be up in arms about that.
Bl**dy good idea though.
EDIT- Along with compulsory eyesight tests every 5 years.

 

[Dan B]

Don't you think a segregated cycling infrastructure would be nice?

I have a better idea: a segregated driving infrastructure. Build some roads on which only motor vehicles are allowed, where they can all go at silly speeds and tailgate each other as much as they want without endangering the rest of the travelling public who don't have protective tins to hide in, and then we could confine them to those roads where available and require them to exercise due care and attention at all other times when they're sharing the public highway with the public.

We'd need some snappy names for the new infrastructure, of course. Maybe we could call them "motor-ways" or something like that

 

[MontyVeda]

They'd be up in arms about that.
Bl**dy good idea though.
EDIT- Along with compulsory eyesight tests every 5 years.

just like professional drivers are up in arms about the Driver CPC... and the rest of us were up in arms about Council Tax... I'd love to see it happen but i doubt it ever will.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

They'd be up in arms about that.
Bl**dy good idea though.
EDIT- Along with compulsory eyesight tests every 5 years.

It gets talked about every so often, annoyingly the wimp out is always 'cost' I guess wimping out on the real reason 'we'd lose so many votes' isn't something politicians want to admit to. It is one of those things that once someone bit the bullet and did it nobody would revoke. It's the sort of thing a US president might do in their second term :-)

I'd imagine they're hoping driverless cars come through first, then they don't need to worry...

 

[moo]

I'm all for educating ignorant drivers and punishing them for not driving with due care and attention. Most drivers i know haven't looked at the HC since they had driving lessons... which is one reason i believe that the driving test should be periodically retaken in order to retain a driving licence.

A simpler solution would be to revoke a driving licence for all offences earning points. i.e. 3 points for speeding = re-take your test after 14 days disqualification. The stick simply isn't big enough.

 

[Sara_H]

Cycling is a relatively safe activity, and despite a huge increase in traffic volumes, the roads are probably safer than ever, so I don't really see any evidence for your assertions. Segregation is fine for pootling along the pavement with your kids, but useless for those of us who want to get from A to B. I'm not a 'vehicular cyclist' btw, I'm just cycling on the road, as cyclists have done for well over a century, despite the Mr Toads of this world.

The evidence is that hardly anybody rides a bike.

 

[vickster]

The evidence is that hardly anybody rides a bike.

But is that due to other factors:

Laziness?
Convenience?
Weather?
Habit?
Lack of time?
Inability?
Health reasons?
Simply don't enjoy it?
Simply don't want to / even think about doing so for whatever reason?

I know very few people who ride bikes - those who don't, don't because of the safety aspect as far as I know (although it may be some sort of latent / sub conscious reason I suppose)...even though I've personally ended up with two nasty chronic injuries from bike falls! I am more nervous and less tolerant of other drivers and indeed cyclists since my February accident but it hasn't put me off despite the pain (and it's probably not doing me any good actually)!!

 

[Markymark]

Nah, first thing anyone says to me when I mention I commute by bike is "Isn't it really dangerous?" I think the MAIN reason people I know don't cycle is fear.

 

[vickster]

Maybe commuting into London, not cycling full stop IMO