Should cyclists be fined for not having lights on while cycling at night?

[mickle]

I saw a guy cycling ... wearing nothing but black,with no lights on and no helmet too!!

farking genius.

 

[MontyVeda]

No need, but perhaps you would get better responses if you made a propsal instead of an observation. All of us have seen cyclists riding unlit and quite a few might possibly like to see then fined more often too, but how would you ensure the existing penalties are better enforced?

if it was a serious issue, then it would be enforced more... fact is, light-less cyclists aren't much of a problem. If a copper spots one that is a potential problem (ie, riding on a busy road at night sans lights), then i expect they'd do something*, assuming they're not chasing bank robbers or looking for Banksey.

* as in, pull 'em over, have a word... offer advice, suggest the pavement might be better than the road... and if the cyclist is being a gobsh!te, issue an FPN... or a producer to get some lights and prove it to the police.

when it becomes a bigger problem, it'll be better enforced... just like the drink driving clampdowns around xmas... but it needs to become a problem first, not an annoyance.

 

[MontyVeda]

The study, carried out for the Department for Transport, found that
...
Wearing dark clothing at night was seen as a potential cause in about 2.5% of cases, and failure to use lights was mentioned 2% of the time.
....

it'd be interesting, or even enlightening to know the numbers/percentage of cyclists that were wearing hi-viz when hit.

 

[snorri]

I saw a guy cycling from Luton cycling in the pitch black Country lanes wearing nothing but black,with no lights on and no helmet too!!

Still you picked up a fair bit of detail, a male, a cyclist, journey start point, clothing colour, lights or lack of, headgear, chain a bit slack? Most critics comment on chain tension

 

[ufkacbln]

Open to debate.....

Friend of mine is a serious cyclist and ALWAYS has lights

Used to commute on the ferry and this morning did not put her lights back on.

Got stopped by PC.....

PC - You don't have any lights
Friend - Yes I do
PC - But they are't switched on
FRiend - That is because it is a bright sunny morning
PC - Doesn't matter, you should still have lights on
Friend - Why?
PC - Because of the time - you should have lights on
Friend - It is now 07:00, Sunrise was , and lighting up time stopped before sunsise which was about an hour ago
PC - Well I think you should have lights on so I am giving you a ticket.
Friend - ... and I will appeal

She did, but the PC then claimed that in his opinion visibility had been reduced... overriding the lighting times.

Try proving that at 07:00 on a particular date was a bright sunny morning!

Fortunately she had two witnesses and the ferry pilot who testified that it was in fact a bright morning, PC then decided that it was a light mist that had affected visibility. Her appeal was upheld and the fine quashed.

 

[Davidc]

Better to use police time and effort on phone using, RLJing, aggressive etc. drivers than on the daft end of the cyclist spectrum.

RLJ cyclists - possibly.

 

[summerdays]

Try proving that at 07:00 on a particular date was a bright sunny morning!
.

I would use local weather station sites, one of which includes photos taken regularly at 5 min intervals and also light levels, or local solar levels recorded by PV panels.

 

[Colin B]

Slightly OT but not sure .Let's say I got to work tomorrow at 6:45 sunrise is 6:00 with zero lights fitted to my bike could I be fined for not having any even though its broad daylight and they are not needed.

 

[ufkacbln]

Slightly OT but not sure .Let's say I got to work tomorrow at 6:45 sunrise is 6:00 with zero lights fitted to my bike could I be fined for not having any even though its broad daylight and they are not needed.

Officially lights are required during "lighting up time"

This is defined as 30 minutes after sunset to 30 minutes before sunrise

So in theory after 05:30 you would not need lights

However the clause is "diminished visibility"

This can make sense.

At 06:45 on a sunny morning then you will be fine, however if it is a miserable overcast and dank morning then lights may still be appropriate

 

[ufkacbln]

My personal "judgement" is to look at the environment, if lighting on shops or cars is making a difference then it is worthwhile using yours

 

[Colin B]

I only ask because I've not bought lights yet want cree but the thread here's confusing as to what I should get and tomorrow will be the first chance I've had to use it commute wise so I'll be lightless .

 

[ufkacbln]

Are you sure? I thought it was now sunset to sunrise.

Unclear!

CTC says:

'Lighting-up time' and the 'Hours of Darkness'
These commonplace phrases have meant many different things in the past and continue to cause confusion. Remember: for a cyclist the only thing that matters is the sun, the moment it dips below the horizon, our lights must go on, even though there may be plenty of light to see by for another half hour or so on a clear evening.
Sunset to sunrise: that's lighting-up time, when drivers must also switch on their sidelights at least. They can leave off the headlights for another 30 minutes, until - you guessed it - the 'Hours of Darkness', which nowadays endure from half an hour after sunset until half an hour before sunrise.

 

[Shut Up Legs]

Why do some people keep saying that cyclists who break road rules are "giving all cyclists a bad name"? These other cyclists don't, never have, and never will represent me, so I don't think my reputation is tarnished in any way by other law-breaking cyclists. When motorists see other motorists breaking a road rule, do they think "that guy's giving me a bad name" ? Of course not. This is just minority group syndrome at work, where the members of the minority group are expected to be responsible for any infraction committed by other members of that group.

 

[summerdays]

My personal "judgement" is to look at the environment, if lighting on shops or cars is making a difference then it is worthwhile using yours

Mine is if 50% (approx) of cars think they should have lights on, then so should I.

 

[jay clock]

In reality the police will only stop/talk to cyclists in relatively extreme cases. My suggestion is that they carry a box of good value lights (like this) http://www.wiggle.co.uk/smart-lunar-25-lux-front-and-12-watt-rear-light-set/ and sell them to the errant cyclist at cost