Should I be offended?

[Night Train]

Not wanting to start a political debate but it did make me think.


I can understand things like not showing the Black and White Minstrels as it is white men made up as black men for amusement by playing on negative stereotypes.
However, over the Christmas period there was a film called 'One of our dinosaurs is missing'. It is an old Disney comedy but it had white men made up as Chinese men playing on negative stereotypes.

Now, as second generation British Chinese I am wondering if I should be gravely offended by the showing of this film!

Personally I don't really give a toss but it made me wonder why the PC brigade hasn't jumped on this one and been offended on my behalf.

 

[ttcycle]

Well NT when you've got the panel of QI making jokes about not being able to say 'R'- it's acceptable apparently.

 

[Night Train]

Ahh so, lacisim against people who sell flied lice and chicky chow mein is ok?

 

[Yellow Fang]

That sort of thing used to be acceptable back then. Feel free to be offended. I remember watching the Black and White Minstels as a small boy. I thought it was a curious programme. I hated it. Not because it was racially offensive, but because it was crap.

I once saw a black actor in Macbeth at the theatre once. I wondered why if it was no longer acceptable for a white actor to black up to play Othello, it was ok for a black actor to play a Medieval Scottish nobleman. But then Sean Bean was playing Macbeth with a Sheffield accent, so I doubt it affected the verasimultude verasimiltude believeability much.

 

[darkstar]

Hmm it's a tough situation. I personally believe it's just done in jest, and would be fine if anyone played on the negative stereotypes associated with England (already been done on numerous occasions).

 

[PBancroft]

Honestly - I don't know.

I used to work for a publishing firm that sold a calendar for charity. In it was a reproduction of a painting produced in the 1800s entitled "A Nigger Boy" or something similar. That was the original name, and we did not censor it. We had one complaint about it from a shop keeper who demanded that we take the item back and give her a refund (I think we even gave her alternate stock as goodwill too).

No one else complained. I later met the lady who complained, and was slightly surprised to find she was white. She had some very strong views, and she stood by them. Good for her.

The point is this: are you offended? It doesn't really matter if you are of chinese origin or another. It doesn't really matter what you "should" or "shouldn't" feel. You are more than a category of person, you are you and that must go beyond racial history.

 

[ttcycle]

It's just the laziness that bothers me or the fact that it's discounted or not even thought about.

 

[XmisterIS]

I'm with Kaipaith on this one. If you find it offensive, then you find it offensive!

For example, black comedians sometimes make jokes about white people. I find some of those jokes funny and others offensive. Similarly, some American comedians make jokes about the British in general (regardless of skin colour). Again, some of those jokes I find funny while others I find crass, xenophobic and offensive.

 

[chap]

Not wanting to start a political debate but it did make me think.


I can understand things like not showing the Black and White Minstrels as it is white men made up as black men for amusement by playing on negative stereotypes.
However, over the Christmas period there was a film called 'One of our dinosaurs is missing'. It is an old Disney comedy but it had white men made up as Chinese men playing on negative stereotypes.

Now, as second generation British Chinese I am wondering if I should be gravely offended by the showing of this film!

Hmm, I don't know what the true intent of this thread is but I do have 2 thoughts upon the topic:

'as second generation British Chinese': Gosh that really is the most depressing phrase I've read on this board, and I've read a fair few posts on the P&L board. I guess, the only thing I can do about that is ignore it or hope that you're actually an American troll.

Why ask others if you should be offfended, concluding with a jab about PC, which indicates that you are not (confirmed by your declaration that you're not) what interested me was a revisitation to the starting comparissons about the mintrel show after your subseqent revealations of your Oriental origins, and your disdain for PC, not to mention a direct comparrison. It would seem to me a touch spurious. But then, it's election time so the BS meter is high. B)

 

[rich p]

Hmm, I don't know what the true intent of this thread is but I do have 2 thoughts upon the topic:

'as second generation British Chinese': Gosh that really is the most depressing phrase I've read on this board, and I've read a fair few posts on the P&L board. I guess, the only thing I can do about that is ignore it or hope that you're actually an American troll.

Why ask others if you should be offfended, concluding with a jab about PC, which indicates that you are not (confirmed by your declaration that you're not) what interested me was a revisitation to the starting comparissons about the mintrel show after your subseqent revealations of your Oriental origins, and your disdain for PC, not to mention a direct comparrison. It would seem to me a touch spurious. But then, it's election time so the BS meter is high.

'kin 'ell! I think you may be over-analysing here! This is cafeB)


He's gently pointing out the apparent double-standards as he sees it but isn't
really offended.

p.s. I'm second generation Irish. (or English, as we say, to calm the natives fears)

 

[ttcycle]

'kin 'ell! I think you may be over-analysing here! This is cafeB)


He's gently pointing out the apparent double-standards as he sees it but isn't
really offended.

p.s. I'm second generation Irish. (or English, as we say, to calm the natives fears)

+1

I'm not sure why you think the term second generation British Chinese is such a problem?

 

[Mycroft]

I thought people had to ALLOW themselves to be offended. offence is a personal weakness.

 

[Night Train]

There's no particular intent and the position of being second generation is just a statement of fact.

This was just one of those things that I tend to look at in a sort of abstract way.
As I said I don't really care in so much as I am not offended. I am not offended as I realise and accept that it was something that was socially acceptable at the time and still seems to be acceptable now.

However, in my journey through life I spend a lot of time working out social interactions and limits of acceptable and appropriate behaviour. This one seems to be an anomoly. If the film used a 'black stereotype' in the same way there would be complaints from all manner of people who felt offended.

So having thought about it I decided to post here and see if there is a general concensus. Do people generally feel that this is an issue or not.
I don't want it to be a heavy p&l thread just a light, and hopefully not over extended, chat.

 

[Arch]

It's an interesting point, that some stereotypes are more acceptable than others. I wonder how much it is to do with positions of power - the one thing that perhaps defines the relationship between whites and negros, in common knowledge, is slavery - perhaps it's some sort of collective guilt on one side, and anger on the other that that made the stereotype unacceptable earlier than those of other races? Maybe our (me being white British) relationship with Chinese or Indians is felt to have been more equal (even if that's not true) - having been more on a trade basis perhaps?

I can remember It Ain't Half Hot Mum shown in the 70s and 80s, where a white actor blacked up (browned up?) to play an Indian, at a time when I think blacking up to play a negro would already have been more dodgy. (And I'll have the theme song in my head for days now).

I remember my Dad saying something once, that when he saw a group of black Africans surrounding a camera, maybe pestering a reporter, they always looked jolly, whereas a group of Indian children always looked more sullen, and that it was because they had faces 'like us' only browner. I've no idea what that says about him - he'd served in India and I don't think he was racist in any way, although much of our lives together was spent in Belfast, which didn't exactly burst with ethnic minorities, so it's hard to tell. he certainly didn't have any truck with sectarian division.

Here's something I thought of for no reason today at work, which is only vaguely related. When you watch a sci fi movie, the aliens are always pretty homogenous, with very little facial variation in each species. Compare that to the vast variety of human faces and builds - even within narrower categories like white, black or Asian.

There, that's a bit of a stream of conciousness isn't it?

 

[PBancroft]

If the film used a 'black stereotype' in the same way there would be complaints from all manner of people who felt offended.

I am reminded of a University student I studied with who refused to partake on a discussion about slavery for ethical reasons. I do question whether she actually felt offended by the idea of slavery, or if she felt she should be and completely misplaced the appropriate response to it.