Should I be offended?

[Cubist]

I am reminded of a University student I studied with who refused to partake on a discussion about slavery for ethical reasons. I do question whether she actually felt offended by the idea of slavery, or if she felt she should be and completely misplaced the appropriate response to it.

Some people just don't get it do they? I remember a similar scenario when I was a student. We were putting a shopping list together for the weekend, and bearing in mind this was around the height of the Apartheid years in SA, one of the girls said that we were to make sure we didn't buy South African fruit. Julia, who was from Colchester, started shouting at her, saying how terribly racist she was being. Once the fur stopped flying and everyone paused for breath, I made them all backtrack the conversation, and Julia eventually admitted that she thought Debbs didn't want SA fruit because it had been handled by black people.

 

[Arch]

I am reminded of a University student I studied with who refused to partake on a discussion about slavery for ethical reasons. I do question whether she actually felt offended by the idea of slavery, or if she felt she should be and completely misplaced the appropriate response to it.

That's bizzarre! If you feel slavery is abhorrant, you should be prepared to stand up and say so. Conversely, if you don't, you should be prepared to defend that point of view....

I'm reminded now (to slightly shift tack) of a talk given in our department, by a member of staff who'd been involved in a project studying attitudes to the history of slavery - her specialisms being archaeological ethics and heritage presentation. She waffled on interminably about the questions answered by visitors to a slavery exhibition, and the rather dubious 'statistics' they'd applied (while clearly having little idea about sample sizes and significance), and the racial make up of the surveyees, but never once mentioned the racial mix of the surveyors, which I though might have been interesting for the effect it might have on the answers given. Also, they'd asked people to write down their opinions, and then collated them into categories, rather than give categories for people to tick - she reckoned this made it more 'real', but didn't seem to take into account that there is still a process of categorisation, and again, what are the ethnic backgrounds of those interpreting the remarks?

The point being, that all the students involved, as far as I know, were white.

 

[Night Train]

I can remember It Ain't Half Hot Mum shown in the 70s and 80s, where a white actor blacked up (browned up?) to play an Indian, at a time when I think blacking up to play a negro would already have been more dodgy. (And I'll have the theme song in my head for days now).

I think there was a Carry On film over Christmas that had white men made up to be Asian, again it seemed acceptable.

It does seem to be a case that some ethinic, religious and cultural stereotypes are seen as offensive when portrayed by others, or even portayed at all, and some are not.
For lack of any logical consistancy (or at least any that I can fathom) I generally avoid involvement.

 

[ttcycle]

NT on the reverse side, you will also find a distinct lack of characters in soaps/tv programmes/adverts that are chinese/thai/japanese. Except maybe in US programmes. I wonder why this is? There doesn't seem to be any consistency at all.

Perhaps it's also about the level of complaints people make about this?

in fact when people reference to race...most people think of black..that in itself is a quick and easy stereotyped way to view race

 

[montage]

No, you shouldn't be offended. I'm not rascist at all, and don't like rascism....but I do get really pissed off at little whining people complaining about Santa being put up in the supermarkets....they should go do something useful with their lives instead of making everybody think that everybody hates them

 

[Night Train]

NT on the reverse side, you will also find a distinct lack of characters in soaps/tv programmes/adverts that are chinese/thai/japanese. Except maybe in US programmes. I wonder why this is? There doesn't seem to be any consistency at all.

Perhaps it's also about the level of complaints people make about this?

in fact when people reference to race...most people think of black..that in itself is a quick and easy stereotyped way to view race

That is very true.

If someone said 'name a Chinese/Oriental tv celebrity' who would you name and what role model would that person or charater be?

I don't know, I generally don't notice and I don't mix in Chinese society to be anymore aware.
Can only think of Harry Kim in Star Trek Voyager right now but only because I am watching it.

 

[ttcycle]

The only person I can think of is Lucy Liu and she's from US shows, not got a clue about anyone in the UK mind.

 

[Cubist]

That is very true.

If someone said 'name a Chinese/Oriental tv celebrity' who would you name and what role model would that person or charater be?

I don't know, I generally notice and I don't mix in Chinese society to be anymore aware.
Can only think of Harry Kim in Star Trek Voyager right now but only because I am watching it.

David Carradine. He was f*cking nails, and cool with it.

Mr Myagee (yes, yes, I know he was japanese, but he was f*cking nails and cool with it too)

Does Ken Hom count?

 

[Cubist]

That is very true.

If someone said 'name a Chinese/Oriental tv celebrity' who would you name and what role model would that person or charater be?

I don't know, I generally notice and I don't mix in Chinese society to be anymore aware.
Can only think of Harry Kim in Star Trek Voyager right now but only because I am watching it.

Sorry, forgot Benny Hill (Sirry irriot!)

 

[Night Train]

No, you shouldn't be offended. I'm not rascist at all, and don't like rascism....but I do get really pissed off at little whining people complaining about Santa being put up in the supermarkets....they should go do something useful with their lives instead of making everybody think that everybody hates them

Yes.

When I come across someone who is racist against me I just think 'Idiot!' and then forget about it. It is their loss really.
I will report it at work if I find someone else being racist generally or towards another person who is clearly distressed by it or uses it as a means of trying to wind me up.

Overall I try to take things in context and if something is not meant to offend then fair enough. If something is unintentionally offensive due to ignorance then a little education may be all that is needed.

 

[Sam Kennedy]

Well anyone noticed how in American movies, it's always the person with the British accent who is the baddie?

It's so the daft americans can actually follow the story line

 

[Over The Hill]

It is strange in this supposed PC world that we often filter things to fit our own preconceptions. Could it be that we think it OK to take the pee out of Chinese people because we think they will not mind but a black person will?
Then most disabilities are not to be sniggered at but deafness seems to be OK to joke about (my wife is hard of hearing and so I rather cringe when a joke about being deaf comes along which they do on a regular basis).
While we cannot joke about a stereotypical black man we seem to be OK wheeling out the old favorites about a German, ginger or fat people.

I guess it has its place and also serves to let the victim know what others are really thinking about them.


On the blacking or browning up of white actors in the 60s and 70s, I did see a programme on this (Comedy Connections) where the writers said that at the time there simply were no actors around of the authentic ethnic origin to use in the part. That may be the case on the carry-ons too.

 

[marinyork]

I wouldn't have thought they'd be much in the relative representation of chinese/thai/japanese in American tv versus British tv. Chinese Americans make up a much, much bigger percentage of the population in the states than here even taking that more specific group and not "Asian Americans". Moreover if you look at the breakdown for where there are the highest concentrations it's in a lot of the business urban areas and areas associated with tv.

 

[mr_hippo]

If someone said 'name a Chinese/Oriental tv celebrity' who would you name and what role model would that person or charater be?

Burt Kwouk 'Cato' in the 'Pink Panther' films - still active on TV.
David Yip - 'Chinese Detective' & 'Brookside'
Sarah Lam - 'Brookside' & others

Burt Kwouk had a virtual monopoly on Asian roles and perhaps was not available for 'One of our dinosaurs...' The photo on page 1 shows Peter Ustinov, a white Russian on very mixed heritage who was made up and looks more Mongol than Chinese.

There was always a shortage of Asian actors - Charlie Chan was played by a Swede, a Scottish American, two Americans and Peter Ustinov!

The choice of whether to be offended by it is yours!

Then most disabilities are not to be sniggered at but deafness seems to be OK to joke about (my wife is hard of hearing and so I rather cringe when a joke about being deaf comes along which they do on a regular basis).

I can empathise with you. I have suffered with a condition all my life (what it is is of no concern) and is the butt of many jokes - in fact it was one of the main things in a BBC sitcom that ran for about 10 years. I did complain to the BBC and they said that it was not offensive but 'good natured' - good natured? Not to me!

 

[ttcycle]

I wouldn't have thought they'd be much in the relative representation of chinese/thai/japanese in American tv versus British tv. Chinese Americans make up a much, much bigger percentage of the population in the states than here even taking that more specific group and not "Asian Americans". Moreover if you look at the breakdown for where there are the highest concentrations it's in a lot of the business urban areas and areas associated with tv.

I see where this is going...so how about it NightTrain? Fancy a career in SHOWBIZ!!! how are your jazz hands?