Should I upgrade my tourer?

[Geoff Crowther]

I have a Dawes Karakum tourer. I've done a couple of tours so far and managed ok on the odd off-road trail I've encountered on my travels, though I can't pretend trail riding is comfy on this bike.
I have a few quid (let's say £1500 to £2000) which I COULD spend on a bike and have been dreaming/fantasising. I quite fancy an expedition style tourer with 26" wheels, wondering if it might suit me better.
I've looked at the Rohloff equipped Thorn Nomad and, whilst it looks gorgeous the cost would be around £2500. I could just about afford this but I'd probably prefer not to and think it might be overkill. I'm unlikely to set off on a world tour.
The Thorn Sherpa is the same bike with derailleur gears and would cost around £1600 with a similar spec.
I'm retired and hoping to get more cycle touring done, mostly with camping gear. My plan is mostly UK but might include the odd foray into Europe and I do quite fancy Morocco, though it's far from a definite.
It seems to be that the longer routes in the UK often take in off-road routes, which is part of the appeal to me since I come from a hillwalking background.
I'd appreciate any sensible observations.
Would I see a noticeable difference riding something like a Sherpa rather than my bargain basement Karakum?

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

The Thorn Nomad is rock solid, sturdy, and as you say overkill for UK roads. It is not, however, overkill for UK off-road - something our national cycle network is very good at taking you on. We are just back from a 2 week tour on ours and I was exceptionally grateful for a very sturdy bike that could handle the off-road we threw at it. Roughly 75% of what we did was off-road and someone it would have been challenging on a mountain bike without panniers.

The Thorn Sherpa is not the same bike as the Thorn Nomad. Of the people I have met touring on the Sherpa, it does however seem to be a nice bike and they all speak highly of it - as well as the Thorn Club tour (700c wheels)... those on the Nomad will tell you it is an excellent bike, rock steady, will carry more than you need for the UK and most of western Europe, but they will also honestly tell you it is a heavy bike which makes touring slower... I am one of those. It is a heavy bike and seems like overkill until you get on it and ride it - then you know it will take you anywhere (and for us, that plan was around the world).

If I were looking for a Thorn bike for lighter touring (than world touring) on UK roads only I would be looking at the Thorn Audax bike.... just don't tell my husband, please I can't justify it quite just yet!

Otherwise - will you see a difference between a bargain basement Karakum and a Thorn - any model, I would imagine so - they are really well built, well thought out bikes.

 

[Geoff Crowther]

The Thorn Nomad is rock solid, sturdy, and as you say overkill for UK roads. It is not, however, overkill for UK off-road - something our national cycle network is very good at taking you on. We are just back from a 2 week tour on ours and I was exceptionally grateful for a very sturdy bike that could handle the off-road we threw at it. Roughly 75% of what we did was off-road and someone it would have been challenging on a mountain bike without panniers.

The Thorn Sherpa is not the same bike as the Thorn Nomad. Of the people I have met touring on the Sherpa, it does however seem to be a nice bike and they all speak highly of it - as well as the Thorn Club tour (700c wheels)... those on the Nomad will tell you it is an excellent bike, rock steady, will carry more than you need for the UK and most of western Europe, but they will also honestly tell you it is a heavy bike which makes touring slower... I am one of those. It is a heavy bike and seems like overkill until you get on it and ride it - then you know it will take you anywhere (and for us, that plan was around the world).

If I were looking for a Thorn bike for lighter touring (than world touring) on UK roads only I would be looking at the Thorn Audax bike.... just don't tell my husband, please I can't justify it quite just yet!

Otherwise - will you see a difference between a bargain basement Karakum and a Thorn - any model, I would imagine so - they are really well built, well thought out bikes.

Oh dear, I'm not sure I wanted to hear that stuff!
Seriously though, I know you and your OH have Nomads so I'm unsurprised by your advice, for which I'm grateful.
Now you've got me reconsidering the Nomad, especially after hearing what you say about UK NCN routes.
I have to admit I do fancy the Rohloff gears too; they sound the absolute bees knees.
I think I'm not far from you and was wondering if I might be able to come and have a look at your lovely bikes (then again maybe I shouldn't).
Thanks for taking the trouble to reply.
Geoff

 

[KneesUp]

Just leaving these built in th UK Reynolds tubed bikes here for your perusal - http://oxfordbikeworks.co.uk/OxfordBikeWorks/Our_Models.html

 

[MacB]

Tout Terrain Silk Road would tick every box I think

 

[Erudin]

Have a look at the SPA CYCLES Ti Adventure (Flat Bar) and Ti Roughstuff.

 

[Pale Rider]

Forget Rohloff, sooo last decade.

What you need is a Pinion bottom bracket gearbox.

Slap on a Gates Carbon Belt drive and you have KTM's oddly named Life Lontano.

I saw one at the bike show at the NEC last weekend.

Apparently it was designed by a senior KTM guy in Austria as his ideal tourer.

Steel frame, 700C wheels, but you do get Marathon Pluses.

Asking price at the NEC was £2,500.

http://tomsbiketrip.com/eurobike-20...-winning-life-lontano-p18-world-touring-bike/

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

Oh dear, I'm not sure I wanted to hear that stuff!
Seriously though, I know you and your OH have Nomads so I'm unsurprised by your advice, for which I'm grateful.
Now you've got me reconsidering the Nomad, especially after hearing what you say about UK NCN routes.
I have to admit I do fancy the Rohloff gears too; they sound the absolute bees knees.
I think I'm not far from you and was wondering if I might be able to come and have a look at your lovely bikes (then again maybe I shouldn't).
Thanks for taking the trouble to reply.
Geoff

yep - certainly... you can always take a test ride as well.. just drop me a pm... and yes the Rohloff hub is worth every penny...

 

[Bodhbh]

I go for a week/long weekend in the UK every year with my mate - he has a Thorn Sherpa, I have a MTB converted for touring. We're both fully loaded and generally go out the way to take in some rough stuff. The Sherpa pretty much copes with anything that gets thrown at it, just as well as the MTB. Maybe not quite as well when it gets seriously muddy, as it's got rim brakes and less mud clearance, but most of the time it's in its element. It is heavy and overkill for the road and/or light touring tho, at least as my friend has his setup - you could probably strip them down a bit as required - but does open up alot of options.

 

[snorri]

I have to admit I do fancy the Rohloff gears too; they sound the absolute bees knees.

Well go for it. They are well proven now, the time not spent on tweeking derailleurs and seeking out spares along your tour route makes it all worthwhile.

 

[Geoff Crowther]

Thank you for all the replies so far. All useful comments are appreciated.
At the moment, IF I buy a new bike I reckon it's likely be a Thorn since I like the reputation they have. You can read lots of reports of well used bikes. And their brochure is a joy to read, filled with interesting and useful info.
Spa Cycles? I prefer to stick with 26" wheels for strength and the ability to run on wide, cushioning tyres (part of the reasoning to upgrade from my Karakum).
Titanium? Again, the argument for a strong, long lasting bike made from steel is one of the attractions here.
KTM? well Rohloff may be "... sooo last decade", but that means it's well tested and proven. I'm guessing your tongue was positioned firmly in your cheek when you said that Pale Rider . Also, as a confirmed and satisfied BMW rider of many years standing (1200GS Adventure, since you asked), I really couldn't be seen on a KTM (see Long way Round for more details).
Again though, thanks for all the well intentioned comments.
Any more thoughts?

 

[Pale Rider]

well Rohloff may be "... sooo last decade", but that means it's well tested and proven. I'm guessing your tongue was positioned firmly in your cheek when you said that Pale Rider

Indeed, hard to argue against a Rohloff, but I do find that Pinion bottom bracket gearbox interesting.

Seems you don't, and don't like KTMs, but there are other makers fitting the gearbox, including Koga, who know a thing or two about tourers.

I tried a Rohloff bike for about 20 miles earlier this year.

A lot to be said for the evenly spaced gears.

The twist change is a bit heavy, but nothing you couldn't get used to.

I'm not the strongest rider, but I found first equated to about 5/6mph at my fairly low cadence.

To me that's too high, for a loaded tourer you need a gear low enough to winch up hills.

Tinkering with sprockets/chainrings might sort that, but the question 'how low is first?' is something I suggest you consider before buying a Rohloff bike.

 

[MacB]

Rohloff goes from 0.279 to 1.467 with 1 being gear 11, if it was a 700c/29er wheel then that's roughly 19 to 100 inches using the lower permitted ratio of 38x16. Would be 18 to 93 inches with a 26" wheeled equivalent. They have since lowered this limit with some provisos I think.

 

[Geoff Crowther]

I note from Thorn's brochure that you can specify a 19t sprocket as an option, should you wish for lower gears, for a measly £5.
BTW I wasn't really serious about KTM. I'm sure they make fine bikes ... just not as good as BMW .

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

Indeed, hard to argue against a Rohloff, but I do find that Pinion bottom bracket gearbox interesting.

Seems you don't, and don't like KTMs, but there are other makers fitting the gearbox, including Koga, who know a thing or two about tourers.

I tried a Rohloff bike for about 20 miles earlier this year.

A lot to be said for the evenly spaced gears.

The twist change is a bit heavy, but nothing you couldn't get used to.

I'm not the strongest rider, but I found first equated to about 5/6mph at my fairly low cadence.

To me that's too high, for a loaded tourer you need a gear low enough to winch up hills.

Tinkering with sprockets/chainrings might sort that, but the question 'how low is first?' is something I suggest you consider before buying a Rohloff bike.

Our tourers are setup so that I can cycle uphill at less than 4 kph not mph on a laden touring bike. Any slower and I find balance an issue!