Should learning to drive include cycle training?
- Thread starter Arch
- Start date
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OP
OP
Arch
Married to Night Train
- Location
- Salford, UK
darkstar said:
Well, I'm glad to have entertained you.
You are, though, currently, still in a minority....
I'm intrigued to know how making the roads safer for myself and my friends demonstrates odd priorities. You seem think the convenience of drivers and potential drivers is the most important thing - that to me is an odd priority.
Right I'm off to bed now, I have to go to work tomorrow, let's hope I don't inconvenience too many people by cycling there....
darkstar
New Member
Yes, I'm in the minority.... on a cycling forum. Hardly surprising really.Arch said:
i don't consider the convenience of driver more important, i consider the prospect of forcing a particular moe of transport on everyone is just inanity. Should all cyclists spend time learning about the issues car drivers face?
Cyclists are NOT the most important people on the roads, everyone is equal!
Nobody should be forced to use any mode of transportation if they don't want to.
Have fun cycling to work tomorrow, just remember to take other road users into consideration as well as yourself, cyclist have a responsibility to ride safely as does everyone else.
domd1979
Veteran
- Location
- Staffordshire
darkstar said:
What you're ignoring is that pedestrians and cyclists are the most vulnerable road users, as casualty rate demonstrate. Its also bleeding obvious - drivers in protective metal box, pedestrians and cyclists aren't. If a pedestrian or cyclist makes a mistake they are very unlikely to kill someone (other than themselves), the same can't be said of drivers where mistakes usually have consequences for other road users.
darkstar
New Member
Hmm i've never felt vulnerable on the road whilst cycling, have ridden in both rural areas and the centre of Liverpool. As long as you pay attention to your surroundings and keep looking behind when in busy areas i believe your fine. A nutcase driving too fast can kill people if their in a car or not, so easiy, especially if their in a Chelsea Tractor.domd1979 said:
Anyway i've said my part on this debate!
Sorry Arch if i got a bit heated, i just get a bit too into an argument sometimes!
Back to this essay due tomorrow...
Wigsie said:
Wigsie said:
spinning in contradiction much?
why can't we have the Swiss approach?
first off you need to be 18
Obtaining a Swiss Driving Licence
The steps to obtaining a Swiss licence are:
Complete ten hours of first aid instruction (premier secours)
Successfully complete the driving theory test
A provisional licence/learner's permit is issued
Complete eight hours of road awareness theory courses (sensibilisation)
Successfully complete the practical examination
Obtain a Swiss driving licence (for new drivers, two further training courses will be necessary over the next 3 years)
more here
AS A MINIMUM
Rather than specifically requiring drivers to undergo cycle training (I'd suggest motorbike training if we were going to have it as a legal requirement), I think we want everyone in cars to be more cycle aware.
I'd suggest, therefore, that bikes are used as the training medium, in much the same way that cabbies reportedly go everywhere on mopeds to learn The Knowledge.
How about splitting the test, with similar sections to those Mycroft says are required in Switzerland but with the road awareness test taken on bikes? Cycling would then be seen as being positive, rather than the possibly negative view of it being a separate test which you had to get through to get a car licence.
Cycling would be the means to getting a "road" licence with further training and testing required to pass a car or motorbike test.
Not really thought that through much, I just think that making it a stand-alone test could make people view it negatively, in much the same way that many view driving lessons. How many others have gone back for training after passing their test?
I'd suggest, therefore, that bikes are used as the training medium, in much the same way that cabbies reportedly go everywhere on mopeds to learn The Knowledge.
How about splitting the test, with similar sections to those Mycroft says are required in Switzerland but with the road awareness test taken on bikes? Cycling would then be seen as being positive, rather than the possibly negative view of it being a separate test which you had to get through to get a car licence.
Cycling would be the means to getting a "road" licence with further training and testing required to pass a car or motorbike test.
Not really thought that through much, I just think that making it a stand-alone test could make people view it negatively, in much the same way that many view driving lessons. How many others have gone back for training after passing their test?
Tollers
Guru
- Location
- San Francisco, California
I was a cyclist as a kid...right up untill i was 17th in fact. I remember my driving lessons and turning on all of the diligence and carefull, consideration during my lessons and tests and passed my test with no faults.
I was then a 17year old hell-bent on speed and power ignoring the rules/speed limits.
My point is this:
- I'm making the (big) assumption that most learners are about 17. As such, they are probably pretty familiar with the issues cyclists face from their teen years. Will training help them?
- Given the new found power of a car, will the training have any importance and carry through to their driving style, or will they adapt to the behaviour and driving style of those around them?
Personally, i don't think a course within the driving lesson process will make a blind bit of difference. My solution if to get these people out cycling more often and using the bike as an alternative to the car. That's the only way their appreciation of different road users is maintainable.
Tollers
I was then a 17year old hell-bent on speed and power ignoring the rules/speed limits.
My point is this:
- I'm making the (big) assumption that most learners are about 17. As such, they are probably pretty familiar with the issues cyclists face from their teen years. Will training help them?
- Given the new found power of a car, will the training have any importance and carry through to their driving style, or will they adapt to the behaviour and driving style of those around them?
Personally, i don't think a course within the driving lesson process will make a blind bit of difference. My solution if to get these people out cycling more often and using the bike as an alternative to the car. That's the only way their appreciation of different road users is maintainable.
Tollers
jeltz
Veteran
- Location
- Radstock, Somerset
Voted no,
Nice idea but not really practical.
It also would be a valid question whether cyclists should have to pass a test. Some of our local cyclists seem to lack basic skills, road sense, common sense, lights etc.
Nice idea but not really practical.
It also would be a valid question whether cyclists should have to pass a test. Some of our local cyclists seem to lack basic skills, road sense, common sense, lights etc.
Arch said:
I never said they don't matter Arch, Just merely the fact that because we are on a cycle forum some take it upon themselves to think pushing people to take cycle courses will make a difference to their behaviours in a car = a little self important!
My wife uses a forum for expectant mothers or those with young babies I bet if you put up a poll on there about forcing drivers and cyclists to sit in a push chair and be pushed up and down the road to experience the fear a young child can experience, there would be an overwhelming majority vote.
Does not make it a viable option though does it?
I have worked with various government groups that focus on road safety and know that it would never happen. There are other more effective ways of changing attitudes. Even then though you can't change everyone.
Like anything its a business, its all about fixing the biggest problems, the ones that affect the most people. Like it or not, the cold truth is that less cyclists are harmed a year than pedestrians and other drivers.
jeltz
Veteran
- Location
- Radstock, Somerset
I wonder if it would actually be more practicable to include some form of bikability and road sense training into the national curriculum? You would then be educating everyone whether they end up as drivers or not, and it might help to reduce the number of peds that do daft things too.
shouldbeinbed
Rollin' along
- Location
- Manchester way
jeltz said:
Totally agree
I've skimmed through this thread to make sure this wasn't covered. It's the logical response you'd get from drivers, we get it already; and having seen some of the antics of my fellow bike users; I'd agree completely its just as needed as better bike awareness for motorised vehicle learners is.
Unfortunately neither of them are going to happen, and theres a lot of uninsured, unqualified, untrained drivers on the roads who would still be as bad as ever. Also after 10-20-30 years driving a car will a few of hours on a bike probably in convoy on quiet roads with a gang of others really have that much of an enduring impact on your psyche? My driving lessons and test have long since faded from memory.
Factor in momentary lapses of concentration for any participant in an accident and all the training and awareness in the world won't help.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/active/6659941/Cycle-diary-lights.html
look at the bike 'training' our journo friend undergoes in the video clip after 20-30 years away from a bike before getting out into central London traffic to begin his (possibly very short) life as a commuter.
His bike handling is woeful and the state of the bike, apparently empty toe clips, trailing straps, no lights visible...... he's an accident waiting to happen and would that be the motors fault?
