Smart energy meters, should I/shouldn't I?

[subaqua]

How are street lights metered?

They aren't generally . It's called an unmetered supply for a reason ... there is a fixed charge to the local authority.

 

[Milkfloat]

I had a smart meter put in about 8 years ago. The gas worked for about 3 years before it died, the electric for about 4. None of the suppliers I have had since will fix it or support it. Going forward we will all have one, purely so the utility companies can hit us with surge pricing, like Economy 7 on steroids.

 

[r04DiE]

... new combi boiler...

... no longer keeps a tank of ready to use piping hot water...

I didn't think combis used tanks. Isn't that the whole point of them?

 

[slowmotion]

[QUOTE 4656956, member: 259"]I don't live in the UK and so can't comment on the usefulness of the schemes there, but in Belgium we have a smart gas and electricity meter add-on that you buy for 60 euros a year.

It automatically switches you from one supplier to another, based on your usage, and if you don't save any money, they pay you back your 60 euros.

Apparently we saved a couple of hundred euros last year (nett of the cost of the boxes,) so it's worth doing, and I can see how much money my house is burning from the comfort of my phone app. [/QUOTE]
I can triple-guarantee that the utility spivs in the UK won't be giving consumers such a reasonable deal. Confusocracy rules round here.

 

[Salty seadog]

I didn't think combis used tanks. Isn't that the whole point of them?

It's just a small tank inside the boiler, a couple of litres of water kept hot so you get hot water quickly at the tap.
Economy mode just turns of the heating of that small tank and you wait a little longer for the water to heat up.

 

[TwickenhamCyclist]

I didn't think combis used tanks. Isn't that the whole point of them?

Pretty much yes, but they have a small internal tank/reservoir that can be kept hot so that when there is demand hot water comes out very quickly, what I didn't realise until I had the smart meter fitted was that my boiler was keeping this tank hot all through the day and night... its in an outside cupboard so, especially during the cold weather, it was firing up periodically throughout the day and night, which was a real wast as I really only draw hot water for a few minutes a day... its a Worcester Bosh and has an economy setting I didn't know about that turns this feature off so instead of a piping hot shower in 10 seconds I have to wait 20 seconds. Apparently many combi boilers do this and, if like me you don't use a lot of hot water, turning it off can save you a packet over the year...

 

[TwickenhamCyclist]

They aren't generally . It's called an unmetered supply for a reason ... there is a fixed charge to the local authority.

I knew an ex Royal Engineer many years ago who was heating his outdoor pool 24/7 for 'free' by wiring it up to the street light in the ally behind his house...

 

[TwickenhamCyclist]

I can triple-guarantee that the utility spivs in the UK won't be giving consumers such a reasonable deal. Confusocracy rules round here.

You could look at this lot: https://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/guides/collective-purchasing-energy-guide/

 

[Yellow Fang]

One of the ideas behind smart meters is to try even out energy demand a bit. The idea is that when everyone goes to switch the kettle on during the adverts, they switch off your freezer and washing machine, or your heat pump, or electric car charger for five minutes, so they don't have to turn on another gas power station. It might save you money in future because the National Grid have to pay a higher rate when they have to buy a chunk of extra energy for a short time. They might make it worth your while to allow them to switch off some stuff, or they might charge you more if you don't.They have to be introduced carefully though because customers have a tendency to be sceptical. When some were introduced in American, they took their shotguns to them.

 

[subaqua]

One of the ideas behind smart meters is to try even out energy demand a bit. The idea is that when everyone goes to switch the kettle on during the adverts, they switch off your freezer and washing machine, or your heat pump, or electric car charger for five minutes, so they don't have to turn on another gas power station. It might save you money in future because the National Grid have to pay a higher rate when they have to buy a chunk of extra energy for a short time. They might make it worth your while to allow them to switch off some stuff, or they might charge you more if you don't.They have to be introduced carefully though because customers have a tendency to be sceptical. When some were introduced in American, they took their shotguns to them.

without smart "plugs" or smart sockets, or smart appliances there is no way to do this. there would need to be a common standard worldwide for it to work. currently there is not one , even though there are several bits of software standards that could work.

the trouble is no nation likes to be told what to do by a " governing body" even though they sit on them.

 

[Brains]

Would take a really crap electrical engineer to discredit all of that in about 40 seconds .

Copper losses is the easiest one without thinking even remotely hard.

Agreed, but the loss by copper, evaporation, or temperature are all known and are standard quantity's (LNG gas for example is about 3% depending on temperature)
If you compare the figures for a single street, month to month, over time any leakage or theft will show up and can be isolated to a single property.

 

[subaqua]

Agreed, but the loss by copper, evaporation, or temperature are all known and are standard quantity's (LNG gas for example is about 3% depending on temperature)
If you compare the figures for a single street, month to month, over time any leakage or theft will show up and can be isolated to a single property.

So do you think substations have metering in them ?
Although metering the HV and LV sides would be a good experiment on efficiency of the transformer .
What about streetlights off the same distributor cable ? All the cabinets for fibre etc not on metered supplies off that distributor cable.

And in the words of a wise engineer on the DNO . Never trust the GIS ! So being accurate about what's on what network is rather difficult .

 

[I like Skol]

Having just reread all the posts in this thread I have decided there are not enough (if any) positive arguments to counter any real or theoretical negatives of having a smart meter at this point in time. I will hold out a while and see what happens. Who knows, they may even pay me to swap when they are trying to mop up the last few stragglers?

 

[subaqua]

Having just reread all the posts in this thread I have decided there are not enough (if any) positive arguments to counter any real or theoretical negatives of having a smart meter at this point in time. I will hold out a while and see what happens. Who knows, they may even pay me to swap when they are trying to mop up the last few stragglers?

That's what I am hoping as well .

 

[r04DiE]

It's just a small tank inside the boiler, a couple of litres of water kept hot so you get hot water quickly at the tap.
Economy mode just turns of the heating of that small tank and you wait a little longer for the water to heat up.

Pretty much yes, but they have a small internal tank/reservoir that can be kept hot so that when there is demand hot water comes out very quickly, what I didn't realise until I had the smart meter fitted was that my boiler was keeping this tank hot all through the day and night... its in an outside cupboard so, especially during the cold weather, it was firing up periodically throughout the day and night, which was a real wast as I really only draw hot water for a few minutes a day... its a Worcester Bosh and has an economy setting I didn't know about that turns this feature off so instead of a piping hot shower in 10 seconds I have to wait 20 seconds. Apparently many combi boilers do this and, if like me you don't use a lot of hot water, turning it off can save you a packet over the year...

OK, guys! Thank you, I get what you mean now