Something needs to be done about the British mentality towards us cyclists!

[gb155]

Why is it acceptable for you to have someone sitting alongside you in the car to chat to (or more usually an empty seat) that makes your car so wide its difficult to overtake, but you curse cyclists who ride alongside a friend? Is it because they are impeding your more important progress in your over-wide vehicle?

Never heard the argument put like that but bingo !!!

 

[400bhp]

country lanes, (read rat runs) is just crazy.

What does this mean?

I have interpreted it to mean

"I don't like it when slower moving road users are in my way when I go through a short cut so I can get to work 1 minute quicker-they should stick to the main roads like everyone else"

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Red Light]

I observe a greater proportion of cyclists with poor road sense than motorists.

And yet police attribute the vast majority of accidents involving a cyclist to what the motorist did, not what the cyclist did (whereas for pedestrians its close to 50:50). In an Australian study of collisions and near misses, in 87% of cases the driver was at fault and in 83% the driver hadn't even realised what they'd done.

 

[400bhp]

And yet police attribute the vast majority of accidents involving a cyclist to what the motorist did, not what the cyclist did (whereas for pedestrians its close to 50:50). In an Australian study of collisions and near misses, in 87% of cases the driver was at fault and in 83% the driver hadn't even realised what they'd done.

Red-I'm pretty sure that [the Guardian story] is misquoted. I remember looking at a report (I think it's the same one-was off the back of another thread on here where IIRC a cyclist friendly newsweb stated only 7% of accidents were the cyclists fault) that showed the balance of blame was 50/50.

 

[John the Monkey]

My model for European driving standards and 'bicycle awareness' is either France or The Netherlands. I do not know their legal systems, but both countries seem to embrace a respect for cyclists that is palpable when in the saddle and behind the wheel. Broadly, cyclists in both countries also seem to have respect - although there is now a danger of being 'Velibbed' by a pavement-riding Parisian that I do not recall from many years ago.

NL has (I think) a better infrastructure for the cyclist. French drivers (to my mind) have a more positive attitude to fellow road users who are pedal-powered.

Of course the above are generalisations. There are monsters, fools and idiots in every country.

But by and large I think things are about as they should be in the UK.

I've not ridden in the Netherlands, so can't comment on that. In France and Belgium, poor behaviour around cyclists was so vanishingly rare that I stopped worrying about it, for the most part - the "monsters fools and idiots" seem to restrict their activity to harassing other cars, ime. (Woe betide you if you're too slow onto an urban roundabout when driving in in France).

Are things about how they should be in the UK? I'd say not. There's far too much harassment of vulnerable road users, and far too much indifference to anything other than getting past them where they do share the roadway. The key to this may be in the presumption of liability, or in other cultural factors, or both, or more. Most surveys show that traffic danger is a massive impediment to more people cycling in the UK though.

 

[Red Light]

Red-I'm pretty sure that [the Guardian story] is misquoted. I remember looking at a report (I think it's the same one-was off the back of another thread on here where IIRC a cyclist friendly newsweb stated only 7% of accidents were the cyclists fault) that showed the balance of blame was 50/50.

TRL PPR445 if you want to re-read it. It was 50:50 overall but only because 75% of accidents involving a child were put down by police to the child's fault. For adults it was 60-75% solely the drivers fault and about 17-25% the cyclists fault as cited by the Guardian.

 

[snailracer]

And yet police attribute the vast majority of accidents involving a cyclist to what the motorist did, not what the cyclist did (whereas for pedestrians its close to 50:50). In an Australian study of collisions and near misses, in 87% of cases the driver was at fault and in 83% the driver hadn't even realised what they'd done.

Red-I'm pretty sure that [the Guardian story] is misquoted. I remember looking at a report (I think it's the same one-was off the back of another thread on here where IIRC a cyclist friendly newsweb stated only 7% of accidents were the cyclists fault) that showed the balance of blame was 50/50.

According to my sources, the 50/50 figure is an average covering cyclists of all ages, but is swayed by the large number of accidents involving child cyclists who don't have much road sense.

For collisions involving adult cyclists:

- Motorists wholly to blame in about 70%
- Both cyclist and motorist blamed in roughly 10%
- Cyclist wholly to blame in roughly 20%.

"PPR445: Collisions Involving Cyclists on Britain's Roads: Establishing the Causes"
Transport Research Laboratory, published 2009,
Page 34.

UPDATE: AAARGH, beaten to it!

 

[snorri]

But by and large I think things are about as they should be in the UK.

I'm rather shocked that any UK cyclist would say such a thing.

 

[steve52]

im a member of our democracy so abide by whatever is inplace, but as usual im suprised how resistant we are to change. personally i dont think we have it right, as a driver im incharge of a machine that can kill or maim, so its my responcibility to look out for others not theres to keep out of my way, equally as a cyclist i have to watch out for dogs children and peds , i know they will do stupid things sometimes, it is not there job to stay out of my way but my job to avoid them. simples, and its is the duty of us all to do all we can to avoid colisions

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

And here are the alternate approaches DfT has been focusing on in the meantime (pdf)

Hm. So, to summarize, in terms of behaviour change, practically none.

 

[jonny jeez]

most of us everyday are confronted with the wrath and bad temper of some irritated motorist or red faced white van man whoose attitude quite frankly is...get out of the way you ****ing cyclist.

Blimey, Bristol sound horrid.

I ride between 600 to 800 miles a month... through London and out the other side and my every day experience is nothing like you describe.

 

[John the Monkey]

I ride between 600 to 800 miles a month... through London and out the other side and my every day experience is nothing like you describe.

150 miles a week here, mostly between Wilmslow and Manchester.

Active malice is rare - indifference to my safety, failure to read the road ahead, intentional self distraction (phone use, mainly) are rife though.

That's a huge difference to riding in France and Belgium - when a driver sees you there, they give you plenty of room and aren't likely to take silly chances around you. Sometimes that happens here, but it's not the rule, or a behaviour you can afford to expect, ime.

 

[jonny jeez]

Active malice is rare - indifference to my safety, failure to read the road ahead, intentional self distraction (phone use, mainly) are rife though.

yep. that all sounds familiar but "everyday confrontion with the wrath and bad temper of some irritated motorist or red faced white van man whoose attitude quite frankly is...get out of the way you ****ing cyclist" is not.

I think that's a cliched view along the same lines as "motons" and "cagers". Idiots are idots regardless of how they travel.

 

[Red Light]

Blimey, Bristol sound horrid.

I ride between 600 to 800 miles a month... through London and out the other side and my every day experience is nothing like you describe.

I've cycled in Bristol a fair bit on visits there and my experience was nothing like described either.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

I agree that the actual ragers are rare; I probably encounter one every two months or so (which is still too many, mind you).

However, I have no doubt that there is a majority of motorists who really do believe that the roads are for them, and that cyclists are invaders who are merely tolerated and are not proper "road users". I believe that this results in motorists taking less care than they should. This is clearly evidenced by the number of drivers who will share the lane with a cyclist whom they are overtaking even when there is an empty lane to their right on a two lane carriageway.

I also think this results in an attitude among some motorists whereby they feel it is appropriate to pass cyclists at an uncomfortably close distance, but which they feel is not actually dangerous, in order to punish them for doing something they disagree with, such as claiming the lane. I probably see this two or three times a month.

It is possible that this general attitude provides a context in which the extreme examples feel their actions are supported, having the effect of moving the "bell-curve" down towards the bad attitude end of the scale. So, any improvement in that general attitude would make our commuting experience better.