Something positive we can do to make cycling safer.

[SteveH80]

Whilst as a road user both in a car and on a bike I'd absolutely love every pothole repaired if anyone thinks that is feasible then you are sadly mistaken. There was a BBC program on a few weeks about this and to fix every pothole in Eng and Wales would cost something like £17 billion and take years.
It could be done but then all our council tax be increased by a huge amount. Repairs are done but in meantime more potholes are "made".
Not sure what the answer is though. Less traffic would be one but can't see that happening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002nc89

You're quite right. Although £17b isn't that much, about 40 million people have a driving licence in the UK so that's only a £425 each.
It's the politics of raising the money and the logistics of doing the work that really scuppers ideas like this.

 

[presta]

As long as politicians pretend you can have public services without paying for them it'll just continue.

 

[Drago]

to fix every pothole in Eng and Wales would cost something like £17 billion and take years.

Then...

a. Vehicle tax rates should rise so the people causing the damage pay for the damage, and that is ringfenced and not just dumped in the general taxation pool. If vehicle tax has to double then tough sheet - everyone else has to pay when they cause damage to something. The reason this doesnt happen is nothing to do with the practicalities of the problem, and everything to do with politicians sheeting themselves they wont get reelected.

b. The sooner they start on repairs the better.

These are lame excuses at best. It doesn't help that a programme of bodging at the lowest possible price doesnt solve the problem but simply kicks it into the futute where it deteades further and costs ten times as much to sort, and give them ten times the excuse not to. The sooner we're off the treadmill, the better.

 

[All uphill]

Then...

a. Vehicle tax rates should rise so the people causing the damage pay for the damage, and that is ringfenced and not just dumped in the general taxation pool. If vehicle tax has to double then tough sheet - everyone else has to pay when they cause damage to something. The reason this doesnt happen is nothing to do with the practicalities of the problem, and everything to do with politicians sheeting themselves they wont get reelected.

b. The sooner they start on repairs the better.

These are lame excuses at best. It doesn't help that a programme of bodging at the lowest possible price doesnt solve the problem but simply kicks it into the futute where it deteades further and costs ten times as much to sort, and give them ten times the excuse not to. The sooner we're off the treadmill, the better.

There is also something about applying a bit of pressure to public bodies so they wake up and do something for us, rather than having another cuppa.

As @Drago says the contracts are let to private contractors, and I don't believe all their teams are working at 100 per cent capacity.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Whilst as a road user both in a car and on a bike I'd absolutely love every pothole repaired if anyone thinks that is feasible then you are sadly mistaken. There was a BBC program on a few weeks about this and to fix every pothole in Eng and Wales would cost something like £17 billion and take years.
It could be done but then all our council tax be increased by a huge amount. Repairs are done but in meantime more potholes are "made".
Not sure what the answer is though. Less traffic would be one but can't see that happening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002nc89

It is feasible.

UK roads, from personal experience, are some of the very worst in the while of Europe.

The contrast with France, Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands is quite remarkable.

UK taxes are by far the lowest of any of these countries. This is not coincidence.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

Vehicle tax rates should rise so the people causing the damage

(Without wanting to stray into NCAP territory) I wonder if it's more complex in that some vehicles can cause more damage than othets.

Sure I've seen articles saying how HGVs cause disproportionately more damage in relation to the VED they pay so thus some drivers are in effect subsidising eg goods deliveries.

I wonder if mileage charging is the way forward (based on eg carbon emissions/mile and/or vehicle weight, etc.). I wonder if recent budget changes might need to find a mechanism to measure mileage for such charges making such schemes feasible.

Claiming no expertise and very open to having my recollections and opinions corrected.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Without wanting to stray into NCAP territory

Political discussion in this area of the forum, related to cycling, is permitted.

 

[mjr]

As long as politicians pretend you can have public services without paying for them it'll just continue.

Basically, the choice is between higher taxes, higher vehicle repair costs or less traffic weight. Can't have low taxes and high traffic without repairing suspensions more often, plus it farks those with narrower tyres...

 

[Drago]

(Without wanting to stray into NCAP territory) I wonder if it's more complex in that some vehicles can cause more damage than othets.

Sure I've seen articles saying how HGVs cause disproportionately more damage in relation to the VED they pay so thus some drivers are in effect subsidising eg goods deliveries.

I wonder if mileage charging is the way forward (based on eg carbon emissions/mile and/or vehicle weight, etc.). I wonder if recent budget changes might need to find a mechanism to measure mileage for such charges making such schemes feasible.

Claiming no expertise and very open to having my recollections and opinions corrected.

Mileage charging would doubtless work if it were at a level to be sufficiently punitive and thus deter drivers.

Back before covid the AA did an analysis and they reckoned fuel pricing had reached a point that each penny rise of duty on fuel was counterproductive - they reckoned people were genuinely driving less because of the cost, which not only reduced fuel duty income but VAT redeipts as well on top of that, so bumping up duty was bringing in less taxation overall.

If they can find that point with road pricing then great. Too many eejuts drive stupid short inappropriate journey then have the cheek to moan about the condition or the roads (and the traffic, etc, they helped create). Its undesirable on so many levels, not just potholes, but its a political nettle that our lizard overlords are too frightened to grasp.

 

[mjr]

the AA did an analysis and they reckoned fuel pricing had reached a point that each penny rise of duty on fuel was counterproductive - they reckoned people were genuinely driving less because of the cost, which not only reduced fuel duty income but VAT redeipts as well on top of that, so bumping up duty was bringing in less taxation overall.

The Automobile Association is against increases in taxes that discourage driving? I'm shocked! 😉

 

[Drago]

Fair observation!

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

... they reckoned people were genuinely driving less because of the cost, which not only reduced fuel duty income but VAT redeipts as well on top of that, so bumping up duty was bringing in less taxation overall.

Whilst I've not seen the AA's analysis, I would have expected that if so many were concerned about the fuel costs then there would be a trend towards smaller more economical cars whereas my anecdotal impression is roads are filled with higher proportion of large SUVs (burning more fuel and being significantly heavier, etc. than vehicles most need for transport.

 

[Drago]

Its besause theyre sheeple.

They dont think in terms of necessity or logic like those of us who prefer active travel as our default mode. Their houses could be simultaneously on fire due to global warming while being inundated due to rising sea levels and they'd still want to drive 400 metres to the CoOp.

 

[Binky]

It is feasible.

UK roads, from personal experience, are some of the very worst in the while of Europe.

The contrast with France, Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands is quite remarkable.

UK taxes are by far the lowest of any of these countries. This is not coincidence.

Pretty much ANYTHING is feasible, just need enough money and time.

Getting it is another matter. More hospitals, more health care workers, more buses, more trains, more road repairs, more spending on defence and armed forces, more police etc etc etc.

 

[Drago]

The issue here is that we have paid for this already. We've paid for proper maintenance and repair, but with the arrival of outsourcing the priority went from doing the best job possible for the budget to one of doing the cheapest job they can. They follow that morel in order to take as much profit rrom the budget as possible today, and hang the consequences for tomorrow.

I see one group is trying to get an injunction to prevent the government allowing the water companies to raise bills to pay for upgrades. Theyre seeking it on the basis thet consumers have already paid for these ulgrades but the suppliers chose to pay the surplus to shareholders instead and that consumers should not be charged twice for the same thing. A fair point. Wouldn't it be nice if a group did the same with the refards to the big Highways authorities contractors such as Kier?

Im not going to get political on on that point, I only mention it for context in this instance. The issue here being that, yes, it will be expensive and tjme consuming to repair roads to a decent standard, but seeing as that's what we've been paying for since outsourcing became common in the 90s its not unreasonable to expect it to happen, regardless of how expensive, time consuming or inconvenient it may be.

Expense and time are not an excuse for the public to roll over and say, "aww, forget it then, keep the money for your shareholders dividend and we'll shut up moaning about the damage to vehicles and the occasional dead person,"

Bottom line is we pay, we have been doing so for decades, and it is in not in any way whatsoever unreasonable to expect a situation that prioritises that service.