Discussion in 'CycleChat Cafe' started by Mister Paul, 7 Sep 2007.

  1. Mister Paul

    Mister Paul Legendary Member

    Now I don't want to start a huge argument. I value these forums for allowing people to discuss issues and form and mould their own opinions. So can we have a discussion?


    Legal types, and speed apologists argue that speeding is a legal term and so can only apply when a vehicle is travelling above the legally posted speed limit.

    1. Is there an accepted alternative definition? That is, can someone be said to be speeding who is not exceeding the speed limit?
    2. With the emphasis moving so much towards the legal definition of speeding these days, would you now consider it wrong to use the term subjectively, to describe a vehicle that you thought to be driving too fast?
    3. What is too fast?
  2. Twenty Inch

    Twenty Inch New Member

    Behind a desk
    My instructor explained it thus (in 2000):

    The speed limit is the maximum for a given stretch of road, but:

    The driver has a duty to observe an appropriate speed for the conditions.

    So the limit might be 70mph on road X, but if there were a thick fog a more appropriate speed would be 25mph and a driver causing an accident by driving at 69mph would not be able to say that he was guiltless as he was within the limit.
  3. domtyler

    domtyler Über Member

    I think that you are confusing two aspects of the same crime. One is the legal aspect, as you mention, and the other is the moral aspect. You can be guilty of either or both depending on the circumstances.

    When you say "the emphasis moving so much towards the legal definition of speeding these days". What do you mean?
  4. OP
    Mister Paul

    Mister Paul Legendary Member

    I mean that if I see a speeding car then it won't necessarily be exceeding the speed limit, in the same way that you could describe something fast on rails as a speeding train. In these examples it's not a legal definition, but a reference to something going fast.

    But if you mention that word in a motoring forum you'll be told that the car wasn't speeding because it was driving within the limit.
  5. buggi

    buggi Bird Saviour

    This is what my instructor told me also. why then did i get marked down for not going at the max speed limit in my test when it was pishing down with rain and i could hardly see where i was going???
  6. col

    col Veteran

    I suppose driving sensibly to conditions is not speeding?But we then have those limits set that seem unreasonable,like when passing speed cameras,so a long clear stretch of road where you may break the limit to overtake,because its still safe in your eyes, but you get snapped(mmm ulterior motive there?)but then a tortoise flat out is speeding isnt it?
  7. bonj2

    bonj2 Guest

    I think what you are looking for is that there is a difference between 'speeding', and 'being guilty of the offence of exceeding the speed limit on a public road'.
    The two are not synonymous.
    In the same way that many people think that 'train tracks' and 'rails' are synonymous, they're not. A train track comprises of two rails about 1.4m apart, sleepers, ballast, any foundations necessary, etc. i.e. the whole caboodle.
    'Being guilty of the offence of exceeding the speed limit on a public road' comprises of someone speeding, the act being identified, a case being constructed, it being proven, etc. - the whole caboodle.

    Unfortunately, people on motoring forums will (wrongly) assume that the two are synonymous. Such assumptions are akin to the 'it's only dangerous if you actually crash' mentality.
  8. bonj2

    bonj2 Guest

    Mister Paul, who the devil is that woman in your avatar? Is it Gillian McKeith, who you've got a crush on?
  9. OP
    Mister Paul

    Mister Paul Legendary Member

    No. She's attractive, but could never compare to Gillian.
  10. alecstilleyedye

    alecstilleyedye nothing in moderation Moderator

    because driving examiners can be bastards as there is no come back. my advice to anyone about to sit a driving test is to take the option of having your instructor sit in. he/she can't do anything other than sit and observe, but it stops examiners getting away with murder.
  11. magnatom

    magnatom Guest

    She's the sort of lady it would be nice to have living close to you! :biggrin:
  12. bonj2

    bonj2 Guest

    Who is it then? Anneka Rice's mother?
  13. OP
    Mister Paul

    Mister Paul Legendary Member

    An F1 car can be described as speeding. A car doing 70mph on the motorway can be described as speeding. Both are moving at speed.

    This is more about the English language Bonj, and whether we should be able to use words without assumptions being made.

    I've had several discussions with speed apologists and used the word to describe cars that I considered to be going fast, or too fast. The response is usually "ah, but they're not speeding. They're within the limit" I think that this is done to try to diminish the impact of the word when it is used to describe drivers who are exceeding the speed limit.
  14. col

    col Veteran

    She looks like the lady in the comedy series where the bloke was the housemaid?
  15. OP
    Mister Paul

    Mister Paul Legendary Member


    With a little understanding, you can find your perfect blend.
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