SRAM 12 speed set up - chain skipping

[peter-h]

I've just found this forum, and this thread seems 100% on the mark for the problems I've been having.
Mod Note:
posts moved from the other thread because it's a different topic.

I originally posted my problem and some pics on what turns out to be an American forum
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-...ge-sram-eagle-chain-problem.html#post23737090
Not especially helpful... Will use this one from now on

I think the underlying issue is that today's fancy MTB mechanical parts are very close tolerance and tolerate very little wear. I've had bikes for > 50 years and have never seen this hassle. I had a Sun Shaman MTB (probably 8-10 speed) for 10 years and never changed anything on it. But this YT bike wears out the drive parts very fast. You wear out 1 or 2 chains (as evidenced by it either skipping or sticking to the underside of the front gear) and a new chain turns out to be completely useless (skipping) unless you fit a new cartridge at a scandalous price.

Then if you read reviews of SRAM parts, a lot of people are saying that, e.g. taking a cartridge costing £70 to £350 for apparently the same 12 speed part, anything under say £200 is junk. This is all from SRAM!

I do ~3hrs of tarmac+track each week and have worn my last (£30) SRAM EAGLE chain to the often stated limit of 1/16" per foot, and this has apparently trashed the cartridge, not visibly but enough to make a new SRAM EAGLE XX1 (£80) chain be completely useless, skipping on the 3 lowest gears!

So I put the old chain back on. It was just sticking on the underside of the front gear (where it peels off) and I can live with that. Might get one more year and then I will spend 500 quid re-doing the lot. The XX1 chain can go on then. Frankly this is a ripoff.

The other thing I am seeing is that I can cause skipping on the old chain by a slight misadjustment of the cable. Not sure of the proper name
https://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/20260501158705616.jpg
I may also need a new cable, which looks a messy job. This YT bike needs some special tools already and I struggle with it. This again shows how close the tolerances are on this stuff. The upper derailleur wheel is as closely centred as I can see on the cartridge but < 1mm causes skipping. I wonder whether this is driving the wireless gearchange market In mechanical terms this is poor engineering.

 

[chriswoody]

I've just found this forum, and this thread seems 100% on the mark for the problems I've been having.

I originally posted my problem and some pics on what turns out to be an American forum
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-...ge-sram-eagle-chain-problem.html#post23737090
Not especially helpful... Will use this one from now on

I think the underlying issue is that today's fancy MTB mechanical parts are very close tolerance and tolerate very little wear. I've had bikes for > 50 years and have never seen this hassle. I had a Sun Shaman MTB (probably 8-10 speed) for 10 years and never changed anything on it. But this YT bike wears out the drive parts very fast. You wear out 1 or 2 chains (as evidenced by it either skipping or sticking to the underside of the front gear) and a new chain turns out to be completely useless (skipping) unless you fit a new cartridge at a scandalous price.

Then if you read reviews of SRAM parts, a lot of people are saying that, e.g. taking a cartridge costing £70 to £350 for apparently the same 12 speed part, anything under say £200 is junk. This is all from SRAM!

I do ~3hrs of tarmac+track each week and have worn my last (£30) SRAM EAGLE chain to the often stated limit of 1/16" per foot, and this has apparently trashed the cartridge, not visibly but enough to make a new SRAM EAGLE XX1 (£80) chain be completely useless, skipping on the 3 lowest gears!

So I put the old chain back on. It was just sticking on the underside of the front gear (where it peels off) and I can live with that. Might get one more year and then I will spend 500 quid re-doing the lot. The XX1 chain can go on then. Frankly this is a ripoff.

The other thing I am seeing is that I can cause skipping on the old chain by a slight misadjustment of the cable. Not sure of the proper name
https://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/20260501158705616.jpg
I may also need a new cable, which looks a messy job. This YT bike needs some special tools already and I struggle with it. This again shows how close the tolerances are on this stuff. The upper derailleur wheel is as closely centred as I can see on the cartridge but < 1mm causes skipping. I wonder whether this is driving the wireless gearchange market In mechanical terms this is poor engineering.

Welcome to the forums!


Which drivetrain do you have?

I run two SRAM 1x 12 drivetrains, a NX Eagle drivetrain on one and a GX Eagle drivetrain on the other. Neither bike is a daily bike, there just weekend bikes, but they are ridden off road year round. I have a policy of keeping a close eye on the chain with a chain checker and I do replace it before it's fully worn, that way I get roughly 3 or four chains to a cassette. I use either GX or NX Eagle chains, whichever I can get my hands on and find them much of a muchness, I tend to average about 3200 km out of each chain. Cassettes, I use the "cheaper" steel pinned cassettes relevant to each drivetrain, so the NX Eagle on one and the GX Eagle on the other. The GX Eagle, 10 - 52, XG 1275 retails at €135 here in Germany, I tend to get about four or five years and about 10,000 km out of them. Maintenance wise I really don't do anything special, just wipe the chain with an oily rag regularly and drip Finish Line lube on each roller and then wipe of the excess.

With regards running them in tune, I did have issues with the B Screw on the GX Derailleur backing out all the time but I managed to solve that. Adjustment is easy if you have the B Gap tool from SRAM, they cost hardly anything. Overall, yes they are expensive drivetrains and you need to keep on top of them, but they do run really well and I've found the "Cheaper" end of the cassettes to be really long lasting and reliable.

 

[peter-h]

All I know is this
https://mtbdatabase.com/bikes/2022/yt/izzo/2022-yt-izzo-core-3/
but I can get pics of the bike. Mostly GX EAGLE.

The limit screws are no problem. Never moved. Just checked them this evening. In the bench clamp, it runs perfectly.

The main mystery right now is why the new XX1 chain is skipping so badly, on the bottom 3 gears at least. But with the bike in the clamp it all runs fine. I've put the old chain back.

 

[chriswoody]

All I know is this
https://mtbdatabase.com/bikes/2022/yt/izzo/2022-yt-izzo-core-3/
but I can get pics of the bike. Mostly GX EAGLE.

The limit screws are no problem. Never moved. Just checked them this evening. In the bench clamp, it runs perfectly.

The main mystery right now is why the new XX1 chain is skipping so badly, on the bottom 3 gears at least. But with the bike in the clamp it all runs fine. I've put the old chain back.

So like my bike your bike is running a GX Eagle Cassette, derailleur and chain.

As you say, your symptoms mimic the those experienced in this thread and suggest that the cassette and chain are both worn and need replacing. If that's the case, as I mentioned, I have had nothing but positive experiences with SRAM's bottom of the range 12 speed GX Eagle Cassette. In the UK as far as I can tell, this cassette would cost about 150 pounds and a NX Eagle chain would cost about 15 pounds. Not cheap, but then much better than 500 pounds.

Have you got a good chain checker tool? keep an eye on the chain, replace it early and you can should get through at least 3 of them before you need a new cassette. NX Eagle chains are perfectly fine for this drivetrain and relatively cheap. Also keep the drivetrain clean, it doesn't need to be excessive, like I said I just keep the outside of the chain clean by wiping it with an oily rag.

 

[peter-h]

Thank you - I will do that as the next move.

Can the XX1 chain (£80) be used? I already have it. After all, SRAM say all 12-speed stuff is mutually compatible

I don't have a chain checker but I can hold an accurate steel rule next to it. The current one is exactly 1/16" extra, across 12". Somehow, the casette got severely worn. It was a £150 one, 1 year ago.

 

[mickle]

Thank you - I will do that as the next move.

Can the XX1 chain (£80) be used? I already have it. After all, SRAM say all 12-speed stuff is mutually compatible

I don't have a chain checker but I can hold an accurate steel rule next to it. The current one is exactly 1/16" extra, across 12". Somehow, the casette got severely worn. It was a £150 one, 1 year ago.

Thank you for reminding me why i stuck with nine speed. A top qual plated 9 spd chain can be found for less than a tenner.

 

[silva]

A sprocket worn by the increasing pitch of the wearing chain, faces a number of simultaneous engaging rollers, thereby that number of teeth "helping" eachother = dividing the load, and, they wear towards that simultaneous engaging, because if less engage, those that engage will wear, and those that don't, not, bringing the wear states towards the same.

In contrast, a new chain on a worn sprocket, just one roller will engage a tooth, the other teeth don't contact due to material worn off, thereby the load being on just that single tooth, and it will only arrive at aboves situation when the new chain arrived at the pitch of the old one.

So, a load, that didn't cause skipping with old chain, does cause skipping with new chain.

 

[peter-h]

That's a great explanation.

But surely there must be another factor, because this issue was unknown for all the 200 years (?) that bikes have been around There is something about these products which relies on a super tight tolerance. Possibly even just 10-12 speed systems?

Look at the weird tooth shapes we now get. Every x teeth is a funny shape one, and all the teeth are a different (sort of tapered, when viewed in the plane of the gear) shape to what they always were. Supposedly to deliver easy shifting under increasing torque (when initially going up a hill).

 

[chriswoody]

Can the XX1 chain (£80) be used? I already have it. After all, SRAM say all 12-speed stuff is mutually compatible

Should be absolutely fine.

Just one thing that has occured to me, check the quick link on your new chain. They have a small direction arrow on them and if you fit them the wrong way round it will cause issues.

 

[peter-h]

I also wonder whether I should change to a 10 speed. I use only 8 of the gears. The last two are so slow they are, I find, not usable, because you are pedalling like crazy, perhaps up some 45 degree slope, and I cannot keep my balance
But that means also changing the selector and the derailleur, no? Certainly the selector because that is where the pitch is determined.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Pasting the post (edited) in the other forum as there's detail there.
"I have a YT bike, Izzo CORE 3 Black Magic M, year 2022.
https://mtbdatabase.com/bikes/2022/y...t-izzo-core-3/
"[Ride 3 hours a week] Nearly 70 so nothing too crazy

"A year ago I changed the chain. Immediately . . it was skipping on the smallest gear. [Comment: think smallest sprocket.] rear casette replaced ££. [Rode] fine.
"[Now] chain [suck].
"The "chain suck" is something which started only recently, and is on the old chain.
Chainset: SRAM 32T EAGLE XSYNC 2. I guessed the chain is worn, so I got a new SRAM XX1 EAGLE 12-speed chain, £81. Immediately found it skipping not just the bottom gear [Comment: Likely means 'top'] but also the next two. <The new chain just slips on the lowest 3 gears, under high torque (standing on the pedals).>
"Gearchange was not working as before and needed adjustment (why??) but I could not get it right. Put the old chain back. I ordered a new front gear; they are cheap £15 (are these counterfeit??). SRAM X-Sync 2 Steel Direct Mount Boost Chainring 32T. SKU: SRMCW8041004."

Adding here the comment on the other forum's thread, in the spirit of @mickle :
"i'm still trying to wrap my head around a 69 yr. old buying a wild eyed $4500 CF MTB with mondo travel and big brakes.... for leisurely exercise rides...

but hey... if you're happy... "

From all this I'm deducing that @peter-h with a 1x 32t chainring spends most of his time on the 10t and 11t sprockets (when not climbing "45o hills") and that's why those sprockets are skipping with a new chain on. Also 3 hours' riding a week for a year is (say) 1500 miles - quite likely the chain has elongated, wearing the cassette, hence the skipping.
On 'should I go for 10sp'? The rear hub is DT Swiss M1900 Spline wheelset, 148x12mm Boost rear with XD driver
I suspect you cannot get a 10sp cassette which fits that, and yes, that'd mean changing the front brake/shifter for a 10sp one (NB hydraulic).
My recommended way ahead: N-1 for the most you can get and then N+1 for a nice 11sp 1x gravel bike weighing 4kg less *without front or rear sus obv for "~3hrs of tarmac+track each week". You're welcome.

 

[chriswoody]

@peter-h as the above post says, you have an XD Driver hub on your rear wheel, only 11 & 12 Speed cassettes will work on this hub. If you want to go to 10 speed you would need a new wheel.

Have you checked the quicklink on the chain? It's easy to install it the wrong way round, I've done it myself and wondered why I was having issues. I'm really struggling to wrap my head around the cassette being worn already even if you are only using a few gears on it.

 

[peter-h]

OK thanks; as I suspected. I am staying with 12 speed
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B071G9Y74V
and the XX1 chain I already have
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08B2QYB48
And a new £15 SRAM 32T front gear which looks exactly like my existing one.

Re the link (on the old chain, which recently started skipping) it does have an arrow and it pointed backwards, so I went to turn it around and found the other half is the same part so no way to have both halves pointing forward It also looks totally symmetrical. This chain was fitted by a bike shop. The skipping is not at all regular (like it was when I put the new XX1 chain on the other day) but happens maybe every 10 revs of the crank.

Please, no comments about age. If you eat quarterpounders, regular fries and strawberry shakes, like half the population, you won't be walking at 60+ let alone riding a bike! This bike is fine for me. BTW, I use the bottom 4 pretty evenly and #7 up a very steep short bit. I know 60+ and 70+ guys who will thrash most others.

Going to watch some videos on how to get the cassette off... needs special torx drivers with a hole in the middle. YT just have to be different.

 

[chriswoody]

GX Eagle cassettes need a standard HG freewheel removal tool, the same one that you'd need for any Shimano Hyperglide cassette. This is set by SRAM not individual bike manufacturers. You'll also need a chain whip to hold the cassette.

Is that picture of the top run of the chain or the bottom? Essentially the arrow on the outer plate needs to point in the direction of the chains travel, if it's not you have your problem.

 

[peter-h]

I am getting some tools together. I used to have all this but gave them away when I sold my previous bike.
The chain pic is the top of the chain. That link did face the wrong way on its outside face.