Stability

SkipdiverJohn

Über Member
Location
London
I'm finding the whole thread somewhat bizarre, TBH. I have several long wheelbase frames of non-racing geometry and none of them are in any way twitchy or unstable, although each does feel slightly different.
 
OP
silva

silva

Active Member
Location
Belgium
The first kilo's put on top of the rear rack make a big difference
My fixed gear was hard work when I started loading it up with stuff for the commute. Didn't notice it after a while, but oh my, did the fixed and the two other road bikes feel very different, ie. fidgety. I was used to a laden bike.

You might be too used to a loaded up bike.
Yes but as said - on my previous fixed gear I don't feel instability without a load on its rack, and if any, certainly by far not the difference that the new bike exhibits.
Basically I have 3 bikes with a similar transport-stuff setup. Big double bags, steel framed basket on top of rear rack, rear rack extended. One (newest) I use daily, the second is ready as spare and maintained, last summer I even made some improvements on it. The third is okay but "in mothballs", and not immediately usable.

There must be a specific reason, which is what I'm trying to find out.
To the OP, while it is nice to understand why and how things work,
given you bike is fine with a load in the right place, I would just enjoy
the bike.
When I was young I had the most expensive racing bike in the shop,
don’t even remember the make, and it was the most difficult bike to
ride, If you coughed you would change direction, the one I have now cost 200.00
second hand, it’s a treat in comparison, and super comfortable.
I have had goes on other bikes, expensive and not so, and everY one of them
rode differently, that’s just how things are, and why people who know will
always advise you to try before you buy, it’s the only way you can be certain
whether any bike is the bike for you.

Regarding your current situation, try a shorter or longer stem,
even try a fork that would leave the bike more similar to a bike
you have that does not have the issues you currently have.
Fork trail and stem length can play a huge part in how a bike behaves,
I once put an 80mm stem with 3 degrees more rise on an old bike instead of its 90mm stem,
everyone told me it would be even more twitchy, but I did it, the bike was
completely different, and to everyone’s surprise the twitchyness was gone,
the bike was twitchy because of me, it wasn’t turning in unless I gave it a quick pull
and I was overdoing it, the shorter stem did it for me.
I understand and appreciate your point of view, also thanks for the example case, but occasionally it happens that I need a clear rack, and the bike then suddenly starts to become much harder to control, so badly that I have to slowdown in order to feel safe enough. Recently the rear rack had some lose and lost bolts so that I had to take off everything for a while, and I was hard-reminded of it the next ride. It's remarkable how different it becomes.
 
OP
silva

silva

Active Member
Location
Belgium
ahh , so if you didn't buy it, are you saying they included it free of charge
No its price was included in the basis price of the bicycle, an item chosen by the producer so I didn't "choose" the rear light, just like I didn't choose the spokes brand/model, the rims, the handlebar, the saddle, the inner tires, the brand/model brakes, the front light, the dynamo hub, maybe this list helps you to the point I made. :smile:
 
OP
silva

silva

Active Member
Location
Belgium
:wacko: I have a feeling everything is someone else's issue. :popcorn:
Well, since alot choices of the producer and dealer turnt out to be crap, and since I searched and found better, some of that "everything" ceased to be an issue. Not exactly a "feeling" either, the bicycle sold and delivered "as is", needed new chainring, new chain, new axle, new bottom bracket, after a few months. The replacements held out over a year, that chain I found and mounted myself, held out 18 months, most of that time with a 5 mm off chainline, which I also solved myself, along disc mount - dedicated spacers. Time to distance as 50-60 km/day.
This stability issue, is 1 problem not solved. Mostly because it's not a big one, only that it surprises when circumstances bring it back on.
So, what else can I conclude, than the phrase "do it yourself - do it good", instead of relying on dealers?
 

Shadow121

Active Member
Well, since alot choices of the producer and dealer turnt out to be crap, and since I searched and found better, some of that "everything" ceased to be an issue. Not exactly a "feeling" either, the bicycle sold and delivered "as is", needed new chainring, new chain, new axle, new bottom bracket, after a few months. The replacements held out over a year, that chain I found and mounted myself, held out 18 months, most of that time with a 5 mm off chainline, which I also solved myself, along disc mount - dedicated spacers. Time to distance as 50-60 km/day.
This stability issue, is 1 problem not solved. Mostly because it's not a big one, only that it surprises when circumstances bring it back on.
So, what else can I conclude, than the phrase "do it yourself - do it good", instead of relying on dealers?
That sounds terrible for a new bike to be out of line like that, and all the other
problems that resulted from it, I would have sent or taken it back and looked for a refund.

You do get an odd product that comes out wrong, I used to work in manufacturing steel
products, and if anyone got a bad product, there would be question regarding it
being changed for new, or a refund, you really should have sent it back.

To get a bike out of line from new is really bad, because the frames are assembled in
a jig to hold them exactly in place, so something obviously went badly wrong in
the making of your bike, and it should have been sorted.
 
No its price was included in the basis price of the bicycle, an item chosen by the producer so I didn't "choose" the rear light, just like I didn't choose the spokes brand/model, the rims, the handlebar, the saddle, the inner tires, the brand/model brakes, the front light, the dynamo hub, maybe this list helps you to the point I made. :smile:


nope, it just confuses me more :wacko: , I never said you chose them,...I said why did you buy something you didn't want ….even though we all know you chose to buy them , unless you just bought a frame and they gave you all the other components free , which of course didn't happen.
 
OP
silva

silva

Active Member
Location
Belgium
That sounds terrible for a new bike to be out of line like that, and all the other
problems that resulted from it, I would have sent or taken it back and looked for a refund.

You do get an odd product that comes out wrong, I used to work in manufacturing steel
products, and if anyone got a bad product, there would be question regarding it
being changed for new, or a refund, you really should have sent it back.

To get a bike out of line from new is really bad, because the frames are assembled in
a jig to hold them exactly in place, so something obviously went badly wrong in
the making of your bike, and it should have been sorted.
It wasn't frame but chainline out of line.
In the "late production" phase of the bike, the dealer sent a mail that the bike was ready and could be delivered, only that the chainline wasn't "100% straight" but that they wanted to deliver the durable bike I asked for and that they made a last effort and that they've found a solution, and that I needed just a little more patience.
So when the bike then was finally ready, I expected that straight chainline.
After a year mess (wearn/noisy/clicks), and one of the strongest/longest lasting bicycle chains haning tilted 45% I was given a hint on its cause, learnt to measure the chainline and did so, to finally discover the dealers plain lie.
So it wasn't like a bike delivered, problems surfaced shortly later, it was a long process, not really an option to bring it back / ask refund, also considering all the time/work I had put in it afterwards, to make it meet my luggage and usage demands.

After the dealer proposed to put spring washers between the rear cog and its sixbolts flange (ugly solution due to dirt etc able to get inside) I decided to correct the chainline myself, found, ordered and mounted dedicated spacers that fully covered the mount. So, it is now a (one of the many) SOLVED problem(s), and this forums topic is just another attempt to identify a cause, and solve, a specific problem.

What I'm gonna try is to find/mount some luggage facilities on the front of the bike, not only as a sole attempt to see impact on this particular problem, but mainly to address the current problem of bike tilting backwards when having a couple dozens kilo luggage under and on the rear rack. It's a comical but crap when there is on a location / park place nothing avail to support the bike to prevent that. I have had handlebar bags on my previous bike but these aren't compatible with the current bikes handlebars and the brakes lines sit in the way too. The bike has lowrider frames right and left of the front wheels hub, but since I don't wanna spend the price of dedicated bags I gonna need again to find some makeshift solution. And/or one for a handlebar bag, and maybe a third option: at the front within the frame triangle, some small bag abit like a tennis racket bag.
 
OP
silva

silva

Active Member
Location
Belgium
nope, it just confuses me more :wacko: , I never said you chose them,...I said why did you buy something you didn't want ….even though we all know you chose to buy them , unless you just bought a frame and they gave you all the other components free , which of course didn't happen.
I bought a frame, with some chosen parts, and the choice of other parts delegated to producer/dealer, relying on their expertise...
Which is again the same that I've said, in other wording, and if it still confuses you it must be a language problem.
 

Shadow121

Active Member
If the bike is tipping back, then you need to counter balance this, as you have realized
adding some weight to the front of the bike will help this.

In all honesty if I loaded a bike like you show in your avatar,
I would deserve all the trouble I get, ideally the weight needs to
be distributed between the front and back, with just enough on the front
to keep the steering and handling light and manageable.
 
OP
silva

silva

Active Member
Location
Belgium
nope no language problem , unless the lights were given to you free then you bought them ...simple as that
Your problem isn't a language problem so it's your own problem then.
It makes your words:
"I said why did you buy something you didn't want".
... pointless - "you want" implies a choice of me, and there was no choice of me - the producer/dealer chosed.
 
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