Starting to develop a dislike for A.M. joggers

[Jimmy Doug]

quote="GregCollins, post: 2091744, member: 5193"]hi-viz in the dark is useless unless something illuminates it.

the same level of illumination makes even a ninja visible.

that's how lights work.

vehicles, including bicycles, should not be travelling faster than their operators can see.[/quote]


He may not have the most powerful lights on the market at present, but he does have lights. They're more than adequate to make the high-viz jacket stand out. It may not make the jogger visible from a kilometre away, but he would be visible sooner than wearing nothing at all.

 

[Jimmy Doug]

My earlier point was that, some people who run, don’t want to stand out, they perceive rightly or wrongly that they are safer not being seen by neds and scrotes rapists and muggers. Given the low risk of being meeting someone else on the shared path at that time in the morning, and the even lower risk of being run down by in inattentive cyclist, compared to the ‘perceived’ high risk of being raped or mugged or even just mocked/ insulted, some women runner, I think, take what they think of as the lesser of two evils, and ninja run.

Fair enough - but if they do this not to be seen, they should be prepared not to be seen!

 

[Jimmy Doug]

I've got to go to work now. Darn! This thread is getting interesting!

 

[MacB]

If it was foggy and hard to see then you slow down...no point using bang on your head smilies etc, I know exactly what I'm saying and I know exactly what those demanding a 'shared responsibility' to useage want....their cake and eat it would be a fairly accurate assessment.

If I'm not on the road then I expect that I can come across all manners of people in all manners of clothing, plus quite a few dogs and some occasional wildlife.

If you lack the skills to be able to negotiate offroad riding without mowing people down then you need some training.

 

[Jimmy Doug]

No, that is definetely not my attitude. I cycle 30kms to work every morning, and 30 kms back again in a very rural area. For most of my commute (about 2/3s) there are is no lighting at all. Dark, very dark, and difficult to see. I adapt my riding. I go through the odd (badly lit) village and slow down. I do not presume that anything that happens is the others fault. I try to be respectful and careful to everyone. But if conditions are really bad, ie fog or whatever, I try doubly hard not only to not hit anything, but also not to get hit myself. Sometimes that means I don't cycle in. Every road user has a responsibility to others; and every road user has a responsibility to themselves.

But now I really must go! I'm running late!

 

[tadpole]

May I draw your attention to this:

The last 3 KM of my ride are mostly on an old railway line that runs through the woods, and at 6 A.M. it's pitch black outside. The ride passes through some marshy areas and this morning was very foggy and hard to see.

Pointing this out is not helping his case, it’s making it even more obvious that he was riding beyond the road conditions and his ability to see and react.

 

[BentMikey]

Good point. But a fallen tree isn't at risk, only the cyclist risks getting hurt. In the OPs situation, the joggers are at risk, which is why they should wear reflective clothing.

To be frank, the jogger isn't at much risk either. Much of the time when a cyclist collides with a pedestrian, it's the cyclist that comes off far worse. Not always, mind.

Your post still misses the point that the OP needs to ride more slowly, since his current speed and attitude aren't suitable for the conditions as described in his post.

 

[400bhp]

so are we now advocating that pedestrians on a shared path must use lights and wear hi-viz so the cyclists don't have to alter their behaviour on jot to deal with them. What about helmets? What do these people think they are doing just running and walking about? Are they insane?

Change the roles, replace cyclist with driver and pedestrian with cyclist and think of your local shared use road, and start the whole thing off with 'I try to be a safe driver'

GET A GRIP PEOPLE; GET A GRIP.

I was thinking that too.

But if you read bentmikey's post it's not quite as black and white is it? On the road we have a responsibility to ride in a way that mitigates risk, e.g with lights on when it is dark (remove the law for a moment), so there is something to be said for runners wearing something that helps them to be seen.

I guess it depends what you mean by a shared path as well. Shared responsibility?

 

[fossyant]

Shared use paths - simple - you slow down. You know there will be joggers. Best way is to get some very good lighting if it's pitch black, i.e. those that turn night into day. You'll get shouted at be joggers for blinding them, but at least you can see them. Runners/pedestrians do not have to wear reflective gear, bright clothes - it's life. You want to see them, get big lights.

As BM says above, if you struggle to see a runner of over 5 feet high, dressed in black, how are you going to see a fallen branch or a rock ?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Shared use paths - simple - you slow down. You know there will be joggers. Best way is to get some very good lighting if it's pitch black, i.e. those that turn night into day. You'll get shouted at be joggers for blinding them, but at least you can see them. Runners/pedestrians do not have to wear reflective gear, bright clothes - it's life. You want to see them, get big lights.

As BM says above, if you struggle to see a runner of over 5 feet high, dressed in black, how are you going to see a fallen branch or a rock ?

Potholes should be dressed in hi-viz, and dogs too, and deer, why they must have lights on their antlers. abandoned fridges and mattresses are to be fitted with Cree LED lights, and mums with strollers can have hazard warning lights fitted. It's the future.

 

[fossyant]

Potholes should be dressed in hi-viz, and dogs too, and deer, why they must have lights on their antlers. abandoned fridges and mattresses are to be fitted with Cree LED lights, and mums with strollers can have hazard warning lights fitted. It's the future.

Prams with underbody running lights like 'street cars'. Cool !

 

[sabian92]

I'm of the opinion that if you go out at night in dark clothing in an unlit area you deserve what happens to you.

How sodding stupid do you have to be? If you jog regularly then you know the paths you use are either empty or have other traffic on it. If it has nothing on it, then fine. If it has other stuff on it the onus is on you to make yourself visible (like everybody else, might I add). If you don't then you have no right to moan about getting stick for it.

I see far too many people in black clothes at night and I do wonder when Darwin will catch up with them.

 

[tadpole]

I'm of the opinion that if you go out at night in dark clothing in an unlit area you deserve what happens to you.

How sodding stupid do you have to be? If you jog regularly then you know the paths you use are either empty or have other traffic on it. If it has nothing on it, then fine. If it has other stuff on it the onus is on you to make yourself visible (like everybody else, might I add). If you don't then you have no right to moan about getting stick for it.

I see far too many people in black clothes at night and I do wonder when Darwin will catch up with them.

Why is it the Joggers fault if the cyclist is out of control?

 

[sabian92]

Why is it the Joggers fault if the cyclist is out of control?

What if they aren't? What if they're just riding along in a straight line at a reasonable pace and they come across some knob dressed in all black at half 5 in the morning?

How is that the cyclist's fault?

 

[tadpole]

What if they aren't? What if they're just riding along in a straight line at a reasonable pace and they come across some knob dressed in all black at half 5 in the morning?

How is that the cyclist's fault?

By his own words we know that is not true,

The last 3 KM of my ride are mostly on an old railway line that runs through the woods, and at 6 A.M. it's pitch black outside. The ride passes through some marshy areas and this morning was very foggy and hard to see.

Riding too fast in bad conditions dispaite know it is an area prone to fog, so both visibility is compromised as is the ability to stop.

3 times now I've come up on people in a hurry because of this.

Not the first time he’s nearly run down someone at speed.
So he knows there are people about and still rides at an inappropriate speed.
The onus is on the person who 'approaches the danger' to take avoiding actions, and knowing that there is the possibility of a dangerous condition up a head, it is your responsibility to avoid it by anticipation, planning, preparation, learning and evaluation.