Steering?

[Dirk]

On a bike, at low speed, you steer left to go left; and right to go right.
At higher speed, you steer left to go right; and right to go left.
This set me thinking.
At what speed does the changeover occur? Is that speed variable? Is it dependent on wheel/tyre size? Do any other factors come into play to affect the changeover speed?

 

[Racing roadkill]

On a bike, at low speed, you steer left to go left; and right to go right.
At higher speed, you steer left to go right; and right to go left.
This set me thinking.
At what speed does the changeover occur? Is that speed variable? Is it dependent on wheel/tyre size? Do any other factors come into play to affect the changeover speed?

It's countering the gyro effect of the spinning wheel. The lighter the bike, and heavier the wheel, the sooner / slower you notice it.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

It's countering the gyro effect of the spinning wheel. The lighter the bike, and heavier the wheel, the sooner / slower you notice it.

No.

 

[Racing roadkill]

And

No.

Do you know about gyros? I design high end gyros for military applications, and I've made a lot of money from it.

 

[Racing roadkill]

[QUOTE 4289840, member: 9609"]Sound Barrier ? strange things happen there!
Seriously though - what are you going on about; steering left to go right? i thought at speed you just lent over a bit.[/QUOTE]
It's more of a problem with motorcycles, essentialy we are talking counter steering. If you sit on a swivel chair, with a bicycle wheel in your grip, then spin the wheel, if you rotate the spinning wheel, it will exert a force, which turns the chair. That's not good on a bike.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope

It's explained ( to an extent ) here.

 

[Racing roadkill]

[QUOTE 4289865, member: 9609"]So if i was to sit on a swivel chair and operate an angle grinder, if I turned it to the horizontal would I start to turn ?
I know there are a lot of gyro forces with an angle grinder - they feel weird when you change the angle when at full speed.[/QUOTE]
If the cutting wheel was dense enough, or spinning fast enough, then yes.

 

[Dirk]

[QUOTE 4289840, member: 9609"]Sound Barrier ? strange things happen there!
Seriously though - what are you going on about steering left to go right? i thought at speed you just lent over a bit.[/QUOTE]
The leaning is the result of counter steering. It's very subtle and you probably don't even realise you are doing it. As mentioned above, it's a lot more noticeable on a heavy motorbike.

 

[fossyant]

This 'counter steering' isn't the same on a 'push bike'. You don't need to steer more than lean on a bike at speed. You look at the exit, your bike will follow.

All goes wrong, ditch !!!

 

[Dirk]

This steering' isn't the same on a 'push bike'. You don't need to steer more than lean on a bike at speed. You look at the exit, your bike will follow.

All goes wrong, ditch !!!

Isn't the leaning the result of a very subtle, almost unoticeable steering input? Or is it a 'chicken or egg' thing?

 

[Absinthe Minded]

[QUOTE 4289885, member: 9609"]just tried it and the 9" grinder had no affect[/QUOTE]
Aldi grinder?

 

[Smokin Joe]

This 'counter steering' isn't the same on a 'push bike'. You don't need to steer more than lean on a bike at speed. You look at the exit, your bike will follow.

All goes wrong, ditch !!!

It's exactly the same. You bank to the left, the front wheel turns right of centre.

 

[Racing roadkill]

This 'counter steering' isn't the same on a 'push bike'. You don't need to steer more than lean on a bike at speed. You look at the exit, your bike will follow.

All goes wrong, ditch !!!

Yes, very true.

 

[PK99]

On a bike, at low speed, you steer left to go left; and right to go right.

Are you sure about that?

Find a very gentle slope.
Roll down slowly with your hands flat on the tops of the bars.
Gently push with your right hand.

Which way do you turn?

 

[steveindenmark]

Can we talk about Target fixation now? :0)

 

[Dirk]

Are you sure about that?

Find a very gentle slope.
Roll down slowly with your hands flat on the tops of the bars.
Gently push with your right hand.

Which way do you turn?

Depends on how slow you go. Try it at walking pace, or slower, on the flat.
Try riding in a tight circle - you steer in the direction you are going. But if you push on the right hand bar, at speed, you actually turn left.