Steering?

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Smokin Joe

Smokin Joe

Squire
Location
Bare headed cyclist, Smoker
[QUOTE 4289931, member: 45"]You can steer a pushbike by turning the bars in the direction you want to go, and balancing the bike to keep it upright.[/QUOTE]
Only at walking pace, same as on a motorcycle. If you need to bank into a turn the bike will automatically counter steer itself.
 
S

Seevio

Guru
Location
South Glos
The short answer is that you countersteer at any speed.

The long answer may need to involve my legendary diagrams in MSPaint and I'm not drunk enough to get started on that yet. I will say though, that although gyro forces are there, they are not big enough to avoid getting drowned out in all the other forces involved.
 
Smokin Joe

Smokin Joe

Squire
Location
Bare headed cyclist, Smoker
[QUOTE 4290014, member: 45"]Try riding on ice. You'll soon learn to do it. Of course you're limited by your weight.[/QUOTE]
Don't know what you're getting at. On ice you'll only steer at walking pace or slower or you'll be off.
 
Smokin Joe

Smokin Joe

Squire
Location
Bare headed cyclist, Smoker
[QUOTE 4290054, member: 45"]If you're balancing the forces so that the bike is upright then you steer by turning the way you want to go. If you're out on a frosty day you're more likely to stay upright if your bike is upright without any sideways forces.[/QUOTE]
Except that if you are going at any more than a crawl the bike will slide from under you.
 
Yellow Saddle

Yellow Saddle

Guru
Location
Loch side.
Racing roadkill said:
Do you know about gyros? I design high end gyros for military applications, and I've made a lot of money from it.
Click to expand...
OK, so you claim to be very knowledgeable about gyros. Being a military gyro designer and all that.

Please explain how you propose the two (proposed) steering mechanisms work.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yellow Saddle

Yellow Saddle

Guru
Location
Loch side.
Dirk Thrust said:
On a bike, at low speed, you steer left to go left; and right to go right.
At higher speed, you steer left to go right; and right to go left.
This set me thinking.
At what speed does the changeover occur? Is that speed variable? Is it dependent on wheel/tyre size? Do any other factors come into play to affect the changeover speed?
:scratch:
Click to expand...
Your introductory statement is incorrect. At any speed the bike tracks in the direction of the front wheel's trajectory. There is thus no changeover. The inclusion of a speedway/iceway video does not demonstrate the concept but something completely different that requires a sliding and drifting rear wheel to counter centripetal forces in turns. This obviously doesn't happen on bicycles.

No matter what speed, if the wheels look like this -- / (travelling from left to right) then the bike turns left.
If the wheels look like this -- \ then the bike will turn to the right.

Gyro forces do not come into this other than keeping the front wheel tracking straight when you push the bike at walking speed. The gyroscopic force is what keeps the front wheel tracking straight. It disappears when the pushing speed gets close to zero. It is easy to demonstrate this by pushing you bike by holding onto the saddle only and then walking slower and slower until the front wheel collapses to one side.

The subject of countersteer was also brought up but that's a red herring not applicable to your statement of how a bike steers.
 
P

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
Yellow Saddle said:
Your introductory statement is incorrect. At any speed the bike tracks in the direction of the front wheel's trajectory. There is thus no changeover. The inclusion of a speedway/iceway video does not demonstrate the concept but

Snip

The subject of countersteer was also brought up but that's a red herring not applicable to your statement of how a bike steers.
Click to expand...

Are you sure?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
 
OP
OP
Dirk

Dirk

If 6 Was 9
Location
Watchet
The speedway clip was introduced purely as a lighthearted demonstration of grip. It was not intended to be seen as any proof, or otherwise, in the steering debate.:rolleyes:
Isn't the counter steering required to initiate the lean? That's what the counter steering film seemed to show and it appears to be backed up by the wikipedia article.
 
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