Survey on new gear system

[vectr]

One concern I would have, is if you have it on a big ring setting, and stand up out of the saddle (to get up a short climb, for example), all of the weight of the rider and power they are trying to transfer will be put on one or two teeth, and one or two links of a chain. I could be wrong, but it seems to be asking a lot of a small number of components.

That may be, and testing will tell. But this may be why it is more suited to the commuter/city bike market.

 

[young Ed]

thanks for answering all questions, not trying to insult your concept
just trying to provoke thought, trust me i have an F in gcse product design!
i learnt more about falconry from talking to my falconry mate those 2 years than i did about product design
Cheers Ed

 

[Amanda P]

The Deal drive was, as you say, heavy and unnecessarily complicated. But your design seems notchy and weak due to the square-ish chainring in higher gears.

Perhaps there's a middle course? The Deal drive supported the chain on six toothed cams; the cams rotated to make the chain ring effectively larger or smaller. Your design expands linearly, which I think is what makes it seem notchy in the video, and also means that you effectively have a square (or square-ish) chainring.

Could you use similar cams, rotated by the control plates, to give a smoother change and a more circular effective chainring? Or is the principle protected by the Deal drive's patents or other legal whathaveyous?

In the end, we'd need to ride it to see.

 

[Drago]

DAF 55 anyone?

 

[vectr]

FWIW here are the poll results. Thanks to all who participated.

"1. Have you ever seen a device like VECTr before? (If so, tell us where in 'other'?)" 103 Votes
Answer Votes Percent
No 79 77%
Other: 16 16%
Yes 8 8%
Other Answers
Seen some similar concepts and protos
Inside my own head.
"never actually seen, but basic idea has been floating around"
"A book while researching bike drivetrains in college, 1997."
Browning Transmission
The 80s.
In my mind
Deal Drive (never seen one ... just read)
old rear gearing system video on park tool website
CVT
"Bicycle Magazine, 1980s"
I think I saw a system similar to this developed by a car manufacturer
Truvativ hammerschmidt; not popular though
http://www.google.com/patents/US4740190
http://www.multibody.net/teaching/msms/students-projects-2013/edyson-cvt/
"radial gear, google it."

2. Would you be interested in purchasing VECTr? 101 Votes
Answer Votes Percent
Yes 27 27%
Yes (conditional) 8 8%
Not Sure/Maybe 10 10%
No 56 55%
"3. How much would you pay for a reliable, easily installed component based on the VECTr design?" 87 votes
Answer Votes Percent
$0 (would not buy) 9 10%
No more than $50 14 16%
$50 - $100 13 15%
$100 - $200 34 39%
$300 - $500 9 10%
$500 or more 3 3%
Depends on Quality 5 6%
"Do you know of any bicycle component manufacturers who make innovative or unconventional gearing systems? (If so, tell us who in 'other'?)" 88 votes
Answer Votes Percent
Yes 18 20%
No 47 53%
Other: 23 26%

Other Answer/Votes
Osymetrics/1
FSA Patterson/3
NuVinci/6
Pinion/6
Re Above/1
Rohloff/5
Rotor/2
Sturmey Archer/2
Truvativ Hammerschmidt/6
VYRO TECHNOLOGY/1

 

[mickle]

So then.
The square chainring will feel pretty horid to pedal. Biopace was bad enough ...
The four individual contact points of the 'chainring' will suffer excessive wear due to the reduction in the total number of teeth compared to a regular chainring and the corresponding increase in individual tooth loads.
The ratios will be unalterable, set as they are as the tooth-by-tooth difference between each 'gear'. Each ratio can only be four teeth different from it's neighbour: eg - 52/48/44/40/36/32 - very widely stepped gears. And if you were (if it's even possible) to change to six segments in an effort to iron out the chainring's lobes you'd make the gaps between ratios even more widely spaced: eg - 52/46/40/34/28
In any case, the chain tensioner required to cope with such a wide range of 'chainrings' aint gonna weigh very much less than a derailleur of the same capacity.
The whole assembly is adding moving parts where none existed before and this will lead to increased wear, weight and wobble. It can't hope to be as rigid as a regular crank and chainring.
But other than that it's great.

 

[derrick]

Does not look very smooth. http://vectr-gear.com/see-it-in-action/

 

[roadrash]

Does not look very smooth. http://vectr-gear.com/see-it-in-action/

hmm if thats the best video then it doesnt look promising

 

[albion]

Nothing wrong with biospace, everything has its use.

I'm half wonder if, with the gear movements taking place at 9 o'clock it surely leaves itself open to being an automatic simple CVT gearing system controlled by pressure at, say 12 or 3 o'clock ?

 

[mickle]

Nothing wrong with biospace, everything has its use.

I'm half wonder if, with the gear movements taking place at 9 o'clock it surely leaves itself open to being an automatic simple CVT gearing system controlled by pressure at, say 12 or 3 o'clock ?

No, nothing wrong with Biopace, that's why we're all still using it...

This idea - that an expanding chainring can form the basis of an automatic transmission - was one of the things that killed the Deal Drive. Imagine setting off and having to wait until it downshifts through the gears from top (default) to bottom before it actually goes anywhere. You'd fall over. Every time.

 

[snorri]

and derailleur shifting is used on everything from £20 argos or tesco things to the very best £10,000 pinnarelo carbon beauties used by the likes of Froome and Wiggo etc and they work perfectly

Not a convincing argument when you consider that these TdF chappies need an army to support them on a tour of less than 3000 miles, a distance which normal people (with a Rohloff)f would not hesitate to undertake unsupported.. .

 

[Dogtrousers]

I fear you're right, @mickle but I never give up hoping when I see these things. I just like different ideas, whether they are new or not. I have a very active inner Raymond Baxter.

My current daft idea secret invention is based on a tooth bearing chain that works in compression around the perimiter of an expanding chainwheel. This means you can feed in one tooth at a time. Before starting off you wouild be able to change down while back-pedalling. You saw it here first (and last )

 

[young Ed]

Not a convincing argument when you consider that these TdF chappies need an army to support them on a tour of less than 3000 miles, a distance which normal people (with a Rohloff)f would not hesitate to undertake unsupported.. .

true i understand your point but anyone planning to undertake a 3000 mile ride would take a lot longer of course and expect mechanical problems TDF riders just can't afford and lets face it half of TDF is the support teams after all it would be boring watching a load of lycra clad blokes cycling through france and england by them selves!
be like any old club ride
Cheers Ed

 

[si_c]

I find it interesting enough, although would want to see how it performed under the weight of an adult rider. The video doesn't seem particularly conclusive tbh.

 

[oldroadman]

true i understand your point but anyone planning to undertake a 3000 mile ride would take a lot longer of course and expect mechanical problems TDF riders just can't afford and lets face it half of TDF is the support teams after all it would be boring watching a load of lycra clad blokes cycling through france and england by them selves!
be like any old club ride
Cheers Ed

The reason for support teams is to ensure the best mechanical support to your physical and tactical efforts, and often teams are working with cutting edge kit not yet released for general sale. It's a big step from pootling about to high end competition, hence all the mechanical, physical, and management support required. Only about 50% of any team are actually riders. It's always interesting to see new ideas (or developments of old ones that failed for various reasons). This idea might work with commuter bikes, using a single freewheel, but does seem overly complicated for what it sets out to achieve. Chainline is not really a problem, modern shifting systems work under pressure (e.g. climbing) and are developed to a point where reliability is excellent. The wear on the limited number of teeth with the proposed system, plus the stress on the chain itself, may well cause excessive wear and chain breakages which would not happen on a smoother system. Chain drop is a rarity in competition, and under the lower pressures of leisure riding/commuting almost non-existent. One caveat, a reasonable standard of maintenance helps! Overall the concept is interesting but does look very much like an idea looking for a problem to address, and purports to find one which is essentially a non-problem. I suspect it will find it's way into a patent office file of ideas which never went into production, and stay there.