Survey says roads feel too dangerous for cycling

[mjr]

I wear a helmet and I'm definitely not a racer. Not sure how you draw the conclusion that it is skewed to certain types of riders by whether or not they wear a helmet. And yes, we all know about the safety debate.

Coming out with a 96% usage figure when the last official statistic was something like 36% (many years ago now, before they stopped collecting it - but from what I've seen, I suspect the % has fallen since then as numbers of casual cyclists increase) suggests something is off, doesn't it?

[...] I've also never heard of red lights being described as advisory, but am eager to learn more about this piece of info.

It's only the red man or man+bike lights where a cycleway crosses a road which are advisory. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/14/part/1/paragraph/9/made says they are a "should not", not a may not, must not or an offence to ignore. This was first brought to my attention when I complained to the council about the horrendously poor signal timings at a local junction.

I do agree with you on your last point however. In any event, isn't the most important thing about this report that it can be used as evidence to drive better cycling infrastructure and improve cycle safety, rather than semantics?

Not really, if it's not sound evidence. Then if it's used, it'll produce slightly-wrong stuff that doesn't quite meet the needs and it's very debatable whether that's a step forwards or not (as we've seen often in the past...).

 

[icowden]

Coming out with a 96% usage figure when the last official statistic was something like 36% (many years ago now, before they stopped collecting it - but from what I've seen, I suspect the % has fallen since then as numbers of casual cyclists increase) suggests something is off, doesn't it?

That's only based on the assumption that casual cyclists don't wear helmets. Given that all children are encouraged to wear helmets have have been for some years now, it would make sense that helmet wearing has increased as those children become adults. Most people I see wear helmets, and regardless of the debate on the semantics of safety, it just feels right that to have some sort of cushioning in between your head and a hard object is going to be helpful (a good example is the chap mown down in central London who sustained a head injury but was wearing a helmet, without which is injury would likely have been much worse).

Anything that improves cycling infrastructure and safety seems like a good move in my book. We have some great new lanes in central london. It'd be good to get more outside of the city. Case in point, my daughter goes to school by car. The distance is easily cyclable but the road that leads to the turning for her school is a 40mph road which is fairly narrow and busy. I wouldn't cycle it and I definitely wouldn't take my daughter on it.

 

[fossyant]

I've given up road riding - spending 6 weeks in hospital flat on my back wondering if I'll walk again was rather sobering. Not going through that again. The driver couldn't give a monkeys !

I'll take my chances with rocks and trees.

 

[Starchivore]

I think one of the problems is modern cars, they've been made far too safe for the occupants. Not only that but even basic modern saloons exceed the performance of 'supercars' from the 70s.

I live in West Yorkshire and every 3rd or 4th car is a big SUV, it's a pisstake. They barely even fit on the roads.

 

[youngoldbloke]

I think one of the problems is modern cars, they've been made far too safe for the occupants. Not only that but even basic modern saloons exceed the performance of 'supercars' from the 70s.

- they're much too wide too. I'm saddened when I see the ranks of fat arsed SUVs - and mostly only 4 seaters, blocking village and city streets, and bullying their way through country lanes. They just so unnecessary and wasteful of resources.

 

[youngoldbloke]

I live in West Yorkshire and every 3rd or 4th car is a big SUV, it's a pisstake. They barely even fit on the roads.

- exactly!

 

[mjr]

That's only based on the assumption that casual cyclists don't wear helmets.

No, that's exaggerating it. At worst, it's based on the assumption that they are less likely to use helmets than BC members who have been widely required (not merely encouraged) to use them to take part in club activities for years - not really an unreasonable assumption IMO.

I'll reply to the rest of your headgear errors in the previously-linked debate thread because they're massively off-topic here.

Anything that improves cycling infrastructure and safety seems like a good move in my book. We have some great new lanes in central london. It'd be good to get more outside of the city. Case in point, my daughter goes to school by car. The distance is easily cyclable but the road that leads to the turning for her school is a 40mph road which is fairly narrow and busy. I wouldn't cycle it and I definitely wouldn't take my daughter on it.

I agree but it would be better to argue for it based on more solid evidence.

 

[Starchivore]

Thinking about this- my girlfriend and I are really into running and run together a lot. She said the other week that she might want to get a bike and start doing a bit of cycling too, and my reaction was not to encourage and assist her, I just said "mmm", and then said how round here the options are busy main roads or very steep hills to get away from that. I think if she started cycling I would worry about her.

 

[Bazzer]

IME the majority of drivers are safe and considerate, but there is a significant minority of drivers who quite frankly have seriously poor driving habits, or whose get out of my way/willy waving mentality extends not just to cyclists, but to other road users. Whilst driver education courses can be useful for some drivers, what seems to be the default position of certainly my local police forces of putting drivers on them for reported offences, appears to me to be wrong.
There is also the element of offenders not being caught. Just look at motorways where there are average speed cameras, or traffic junctions where there are cameras. Certainly my personal experience is that there are far fewer offenders where there is a camera.

 

[Milkfloat]

Thinking about this- my girlfriend and I are really into running and run together a lot. She said the other week that she might want to get a bike and start doing a bit of cycling too, and my reaction was not to encourage and assist her, I just said "mmm", and then said how round here the options are busy main roads or very steep hills to get away from that. I think if she started cycling I would worry about her.

Yet it is ok for you to ride?

 

[mjr]

Yet it is ok for you to ride?

Ah, but he's clever and able to keep himself safe and cycling safety's all about personal skill, isn't it(?) That's what government road safety campaigns keep telling us

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewYeuclTLoY

 

[icowden]

Well... whilst keeping safe is not *all* about personal skill, you can do a lot to improve your safety such as wot that campaign refers to. If you are behind a lorry* it won't kill you.

*and not tailgating it at 30mph

 

[mjr]

Well... whilst keeping safe is not *all* about personal skill, you can do a lot to improve your safety such as wot that campaign refers to. If you are behind a lorry* it won't kill you.

*and not tailgating it at 30mph

or it reverses... Also, note that the lorry overtakes him before attempting the left-hook. I'm sure this was discussed on here when it came out in 2016 but I didn't find the discussion just now. Chris Boardman rightly called that video "desperately misguided"

View: https://twitter.com/Chris_Boardman/status/780308121721925632


Keeping safe is mostly about personal skill, but mostly not ours, sadly. It's time for engineers to step up and motorists to be educated and rules enforced better.

 

[ozboz]

I’ve been commuting for about five weeks from Richmond to Fulham , approx 5 miles , leaving about 8:30 morning outward ride : 5 ish return , had no problem at all with virtually every kind of vehicle and most likely every kind of driver , and yet had one push into kerb to which I was nearly ‘offed’ and foot to ground , my bad leg side , and at least 3 to close to comfort passes every day ,,,,,,,, guess by which type of road user ......... yep, Cyclists , the lycra mob . When I commute I ride my Surly , about 10mph , a bit to slow maybe ?

 

[screenman]

Some of the worst drivers I have ever travelled with have been cyclist, one of my cycling mates I refuse to be in a car he is driving.