Sustrans get narky!

[GrumpyGregry]

Why can't he just learn to control his dog and get over the fact that his neighbours like to let things run wild?

 

[ufkacbln]

The report to the Police would be a prerequisite to making an insurance claim, so hardly unreasonable.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Not a case that reflects well on Sustrans. But then I think they are a waste of space anyway. The idea behind Sustrans is brilliant, the execution is so variable that I stopped using their farcilities some time ago, having previously been a Ranger for them for several years I gave that up when I found that trying to get them to make their routes sensible was a waste of time.

I dont mind the routes they have, and buy some of their maps, but I completely agree they have a rather cackhanded approach to things.

Its been removed now but there was a 'proposed' cycle route mark on their mappings, I once enquired about one route and went through 3 different people none of whom knew anything of when it might appear.

 

[ufkacbln]

Sustrans are often at the mercy of local Government.

I remeber one route that went through Gosport, was agreed, dates given and hence published. The route was then delayed again and again by the Council, NOT by Sustrans. The route was never ever actually built.

 

[Deleted member 23692]

More accurately, Sustrans are at the mercy of the landowner(s), especially on off-road routes. where the majority of cycle access is by permissive agreement, with little or no enforceable legal protection....unless the land is either in the ownership or a 'responsible body'.

Speaking personally, I have two or three projects on the go at the minute that have been on a Sustrans map as a 'proposed route' for ages but for one reason or another have not been able to be progressed. The Rights of Way Improvement Plan (under CRoW 2000) is quite a good route for re-visiting stalled projects but it's the nature of the beast that some take longer to deliver than others... and some will never happened (well not in my working lifetime)

 

[Cush]

Speaking personally, I have two or three projects on the go at the minute that have been on a Sustrans map as a 'proposed route' for ages but for one reason or another have not been able to be progressed.

Just out of curiosity Ffoeg, what are the projects that you are involved with? I know one that I would love to see resolved in Carlisle involves going up a steep slope to a busy road, instead of going under a railway bridge but with the present attitude towards cycling in Carlisle I can not see it being resolved. Though I must admitt things have improved over the years in Carlisle and it is now possible (with a bit of map reading) to circle the City on Cycle tracks and quiet roads. I still think Sustran have brought a lot of trouble on their own heads by their attitudes and yes I do agree with you that some powerful land owners have blocked access agreements in our area often by making sure they have like minded Parish and County Councillors in place.

 

[byegad]

It really doesn't matter whether Sustrans, Local Government or landowners are the route cause of their approach. I have ridden routes that had the following 'problems' :-

Barriers a normal pair of handle bars won't go through, ensuring you have to lift the front wheel through with 45 degrees of lock on.

A boggy field with foot thick mud at both gates that was the alleged route, clearly signed as Route1.

Barriers 'designed' to stop motorcycles that ensure you have to lift your bike over the damn thing. A few yards on a broken down fence into a ploughed field with clear evidence that motorcycles had crossed the field and broken through the fence to use the route anyway.

Routes that take a 5 mile detour for no apparent reason. When I spoke to the gut who 'planned' this rout, his reason was to avoid crossing an A road at a junction I use regularly.

I could go on and as a Ranger had hundreds of examples given to me by other unhappy ex-users of Sustrans routes. As I say I lost patience with them long ago and left.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Sustrans are often at the mercy of local Government.

I remeber one route that went through Gosport, was agreed, dates given and hence published. The route was then delayed again and again by the Council, NOT by Sustrans. The route was never ever actually built.

Local government often at the mercy of very vocal local "community groups" who don't want cyclists anywhere near them or their property or home. Local government locally then makes a fool of itself by refusing to recognise local cycling groups as one of said community groups.

But then local government rarely "gets" cycling.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

It really doesn't matter whether Sustrans, Local Government or landowners are the route cause of their approach. I have ridden routes that had the following 'problems' :-

Barriers a normal pair of handle bars won't go through, ensuring you have to lift the front wheel through with 45 degrees of lock on.

A boggy field with foot thick mud at both gates that was the alleged route, clearly signed as Route1.

Barriers 'designed' to stop motorcycles that ensure you have to lift your bike over the damn thing. A few yards on a broken down fence into a ploughed field with clear evidence that motorcycles had crossed the field and broken through the fence to use the route anyway.

Routes that take a 5 mile detour for no apparent reason. When I spoke to the gut who 'planned' this rout, his reason was to avoid crossing an A road at a junction I use regularly.

I could go on and as a Ranger had hundreds of examples given to me by other unhappy ex-users of Sustrans routes. As I say I lost patience with them long ago and left.

Do people slavishly ride sustrans routes, over any sort of distance, no matter what when the going gets rough, so as to speak, though? I use sustrans routes as a guide when route planning some of my sillier A-to-B rides but also take a good look at the OS map, usually via bikehike, and cut out the obviously pointless meanders, or the bits where a google search or guidebook suggests the off-road variation is a quagmire like 8/81 between Llangurig and Rhayader. Route 4 near Haverford, I struggle to get my shoulders through the A frames but the bike with luggage goes through fine.

 

[byegad]

The problem is if you don't know the area, it is no use planning to use a Sustrans route as you don't know when and where it will let you down. I know the Sustrans routes in my area and can use about 15% of them without issues. It used to be 50% until they started installing barriers. In an area I don't know I'd play safe and use the road, they rarely have barriers, impassible mud or stupid signing.

 

[steveindenmark]

Would it not been an idea for him to contact Sustrans directly first? Just having a word with a couple of volunteers isn't really getting permission is it?

Yes it would, certainly.

On the same train of thought. As this was at the end of his garden. Wouldnt it made more sense if Sustrans just knocked on his door and asked what was going on, without involving the police from the outset.

It does seem odd that an ex police officer would sell the metal fence as he should have known that it is theft. I dont think having a word with Sustrans volunteers could be construed as permission.

I feel sorry for him. He has worked his butt off trying to improve the area at the end of his garden and now he could end up with a criminal record. On the other hand, Sustrans could end up with a brand new metal fence instead of a rusty, delapidated fence. And they have not lifted a finger to get it.

Steve

 

[GrumpyGregry]

In order to claim on insurance Sustrans need a crime reference number.
In order to get a crime reference number Sustrans needed to contact the police.
Criminal damage has been committed but hopefully CPS will decline to prosecute.

But the state of sustrans property at the bottom of his garden is none of his business, and he should have left well alone.

 

[Cush]

Yes it would, certainly.

On the same train of thought. As this was at the end of his garden. Wouldnt it made more sense if Sustrans just knocked on his door and asked what was going on, without involving the police from the outset.

Steve

What I have already said.Maybe a better way of putting it would be: A Sustran jobs worth protecting their own little Empire to show how important they are and forgetting that by doing so they are destroying any goodwill they had in the area. I like the folk in West Cumbria but put their backs up and God Help you. As Sustran will find to their cost.

 

[steveindenmark]

I think if we contacted Sustrans they would say they couldnt comment because the police were involved.

Yes, thats the point you fukwits.

Steve

 

[Deleted member 23692]

@Cush I can't/won't post details of a project that is still in progress on an open public forum. It could (at best) scupper the deal and (at worst) cost me my job. But if you PM me with any specific areas of concern you have in mind I will try to give you an outline of what's what/where.