T Line Full Titanium Brompton incoming!

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If you compare the first diamond frame bike to a modern bike, I can't believe what I'm seeing. Blatant copy. Two round wheels with rubber tyres, bars in front for your hands, saddle to sit on......the list just goes on. How do they get away with it?

Perhaps calling Brommie looky likies 'three point folders' will ease the pain for fanboys.
 
Good morning,

Are titanium welding and machining skills along with equipment an issue as the P Line already has a titanium rear frame and forks?

I am not a Brompton guru and have no idea if these parts are made in-house or bought in and if the main frame would be made in the same place.

Bye

Ian
Welding Ti requirements and skills was vastly different. Litespeed, Lynskey among the Americans and Van Nichols Dutch had it nailed down. British Ti in those years had welds fail over time. Manufacturers would fix a joint and another joint will fail and eventually warranty would run out.

We have a CC member who worked for a well known British Ti bike company for years but owns 2 Ti from reputable foreign manufacturers. That says alot.

Yes, welding Ti is expensive.

I am sure they have improved and don’t see the complaints noW as in the past.
 

rogerzilla

Legendary Member
A possible advantage is that the largest component requiring welding, the rear part of the main frame assembly, is much smaller than any diamond frame and may fit into a purge tank to avoid oxygen contamination. Normally a flow of gas has to be used to form a shield, and that can be disrupted by a draught or just done carelessly.

There are plenty of examples of Airborne (since bought out by Van Nicholas), Enigma and numerous Chinese titanium frames cracking at the welds. Either titanium bike owners ride further and harder, or it is a far less reliable material than anything else.
 

berlinonaut

Veteran
Location
Berlin Germany
There are plenty of examples of Airborne (since bought out by Van Nicholas), Enigma and numerous Chinese titanium frames cracking at the welds. Either titanium bike owners ride further and harder, or it is a far less reliable material than anything else.
On the other hand: ti Bromptons are on the market since 2005 with fork and rear frame being ti. How many ti Bromptons are you aware of that broke at the welds of the ti-parts? I do know of one and would not testify it was really the weld that failed. Titanium is more difficult to weld than steel, that's why traditionally these parts were sourced from Russia and China, as in these countries there was expertise with working with titanium through the military and aerospace industry. Over the last years this knowledge has spread a bit further around the world plus especially in China a load of companies hit the market that do build custom ti-frames to spec and later others that offer standard ti-parts. Not surprising that during that scaling and learning phase issues happened, especially with the less experienced. Not surprising that some of those companies may take shortcuts, either in production or in quality management (especially given that a lot of them gain their market via a cheap price) or overestimate their own abilities - something that is not uncommon in bike forums, too. ;)

Clearly, ti is a more difficult material to work with than steel but on the other hand I would trust Brompton that they know what they are doing. Especially given the fact that they do have a ti lineup for more than 15 years already and that with Fletcher they have a partner that is very competent in that area plus they have a lot to loose in terms of reputation. Of course that's all worth nothing as they unacceptably failed to consult the self-promoted experts of this very forum, so there's no doubt that all bikes will fail immediately and whoever buys one is supposed to die when using it. Shameful, really. ^_^
 
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OP
OP
bikegang

bikegang

Mod before ride, my bike my style...
On a daily basis, on regular days at least four times a day, in total about 350 stairs. So yes, weight does matter to me on a Brompton. Bling on the other hand is not at all relevant to me.
+1
I don't mind to own a rather heavy road bike but definitely like to have a lighter brompton since I do carry it around boarding train to ride the country side or oversea.
 

rogerzilla

Legendary Member
I hope it will have a lifetime frame warranty and, by "lifetime", I don't mean the one some Ti bike manufacturers use, which means "for the useful lifetime of the frame, which is when we determine that we don't want to replace or repair it."
 
A possible advantage is that the largest component requiring welding, the rear part of the main frame assembly, is much smaller than any diamond frame and may fit into a purge tank to avoid oxygen contamination. Normally a flow of gas has to be used to form a shield, and that can be disrupted by a draught or just done carelessly.

There are plenty of examples of Airborne (since bought out by Van Nicholas), Enigma and numerous Chinese titanium frames cracking at the welds. Either titanium bike owners ride further and harder, or it is a far less reliable material than anything else.
If I recall correctly, the Helix is welded in a purge tank, and all done by robot I believe, out in that there Canadia.
 

rogerzilla

Legendary Member
i can't be the only one who wonders who that is.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-the-sad-reality-of-a-liftime-frame-warranty/

But many manufacturers will use a similar excuse.

There's a long thread about another brand on YACF. It cracked, was welded under warranty, cracked again in the same place (predictably; heating up fatigued metal again isn't going to be any more than a get-you-home fix) and then the manufacturer wouldn't do any more. The original warranty was "lifetime" which, again, turned out to mean "lifetime of the frame". That manufacturer has now changed to a limited 10 year warranty.

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=121775.0
 
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Location
London
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-the-sad-reality-of-a-liftime-frame-warranty/

But many manufacturers will use a similar excuse.

There's a long thread about another brand on YACF. It cracked, was welded under warranty, cracked again in the same place (predictably; heating up fatigued metal again isn't going to be any more than a get-you-home fix) and then the manufacturer wouldn't do any more. The original warranty was "lifetime" which, again, turned out to mean "lifetime of the frame". That manufacturer has now changed to a limited 10 year warranty.

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=121775.0
thanks - those cases are all rather too like that old joke about the watch with a lifetime guarantee - when the mainspring goes a blade slashes your wrist.
I won't be buying any titanium, nice as it looks.
 

berlinonaut

Veteran
Location
Berlin Germany
There is more changes than meet the eye.
well, that video is about the P-line that has been invented back in November. This thread is about the T-line that will be invented on Jan 19th presumably. But it clearly is true that the P-line differs in many many areas from the C-line (aka "normal" Bromptons) and thus proofs once more those wrong who continuously claim that no changes would have been made on the Brompton since it's invention.
 

u_i

Über Member
Location
Michigan
This video gives a fairly good look at the new T-line Brompton.

Thanks for the link. I take my Brompton to places where the nearest Brompton dealer is half a globe away. Already the original rear carrier, before I modified it, has not been taking air travel well, getting distorted and incapacitating the rear wheel every second trip. With the above, I might not walk over to the T-line ever. I like the inventiveness, though. I hope to benefit somehow at the offshoot level, even if just slightly improving what I had already ahead of the T-line. (Did these get there through those Brompton questionnaires asking customers how to improve their products :biggrin:?)
 
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