T Line Full Titanium Brompton incoming!

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Cycleops

Legendary Member
Location
Accra, Ghana
Fair enough, that's you but maybe other commuters might not have the same experience.
I guess buyers who might have to carry it a lot will have to weigh up (pun intended) developing upper body strength as opposed to forking out the extra dosh.
 

berlinonaut

Veteran
Location
Berlin Germany
Weight is only important on any bike when climbing hills, I'd have thought even you might know that.
Sounds a bit ignorant, ignoring wider parts of the reality.
Bromptons are bought as mainly commuter city bikes, not general purpose sports bikes.
The Brompton audience has changed, so more and more have a Brompton as their main and only bike which also includes use as general exercise bike.
 

berlinonaut

Veteran
Location
Berlin Germany
Fair enough, that's you but maybe other commuters might not have the same experience.
I guess buyers who might have to carry it a lot will have to weigh up (pun intended) developing upper body strength as opposed to forking out the extra dosh.
Well, as far as I know you don't even own a Brompton and have also no plans to buy one. So I guess your needs and opinions may possibly be not the most relevant ones in regards of Bromptons. For one as you are no customer and second because you have no experience with the bike. ;)
 

Cycleops

Legendary Member
Location
Accra, Ghana
Well, as far as I know you don't even own a Brompton and have also no plans to buy one. So I guess your needs and opinions may possibly be not the most relevant ones in regards of Bromptons. For one as you are no customer and second because you have no experience with the bike. ;)
I may not have a Brompton but I do have a folding kiddywheeler which I have used extensively and I have ridden a Brompton. It has disc brakes and eight speed hub, something Brompton hasn’t got around to yet.
You’re obviously a Brompton fanboy, either that or a Brompton bot, so I do like to pull your chain. Sorry about that. Come on Berlin engage that famous German sense of humour :smile:
 

berlinonaut

Veteran
Location
Berlin Germany
You’re obviously a Brompton fanboy, either that or a Brompton bot, so I do like to pull your chain.
It seems you are vastly overestimating the relevance of your personal opinion and need to fortify your relevance by insulting others (in a row) w/o any foundation. Obviously you like your BF Tikit (bought secondhand at a bagain price if I remember correctly) whereas I am a bit underimpressed with my BF Tikit, given that it suffers from massive design issues that cause security risks, has a rear frame that is broken in three areas and folds very quick but is then a lump of a package.
On the other hand I do own a Brompton with disk brakes among others and while they are fine in all honesty they do in daily usage deliver nothing that I would have missed on my other Bromptons.

The famous German sense of humor is dangerous once you trigger it - I am thankful that you at least avoided to mention the war. :ohmy:
 

Tenkaykev

Guru
Location
Poole
I don’t own a car but I did learn to drive many years ago. I passed my test but haven’t driven since. However, having once driven a car I feel qualified to pontificate about vehicles that I don't own, and when called out on it, to pen snide Ad Hominem attacks against fellow forum members.
/s
 

rogerzilla

Legendary Member
Just looked at the Hummingbird folding bike. It is almost 10lb lighter than an average Brompton, but the fold is truly hopeless. I'm surprised it's allowed on trains. I still don't understand how Brompton manages to use copyright to protect their fold (the patent is long gone) since one of the principles of copyright is that form-following-function is exempt. You can't make something that folds in the same way without it looking enough like a Brompton for them to call their lawyers. Unless you're in China, of course, where copyright is an irrelevance.
 
Location
London
I think weight is very important on a folder. I have taken a Brompton on the Tube in London. You are not permitted to go on the escalators when carrying a folding bike. It is not much fun lugging 26lb in one hand, up hundreds of steps
I didn't know that. you can take suitcases on the escalators can't you?
(as a student me and a mate took a large table down the escalators at warren street - but those days of innocence are long gone I suppose)
 

berlinonaut

Veteran
Location
Berlin Germany
I still don't understand how Brompton manages to use copyright to protect their fold (the patent is long gone) since one of the principles of copyright is that form-following-function is exempt. You can't make something that folds in the same way without it looking enough like a Brompton for them to call their lawyers. Unless you're in China, of course, where copyright is an irrelevance.
Brompton has learned the hard way that the Dahon Curl offers enough of a difference to be legally sold in Europe whereas Chedtech has learned the hard way that their Carbon Brompton clone is too close to the original. Something that other cloners had to learn years earlier as well (the patent had gone back then already). At bikeforums.net recently there was an interesting thread about "Andrew Richie styled folders" (well it was interesting in the beginning until it went berzerk). There was an extensive but still not comprehensive list of "brands" that build clone Bromptons in it. The interesting thing is that in my eyes all those cloners really try to build purposefully a "fake original" whereas Dahon indeed built something that is clearly, massively (and maybe shamefully) inspired by the Brompton but also is clearly different in relevant aspects. And typically Dahon it has some chaos in the lineup and a bunch of inconveniences in construction and usage. Interestingly they seem not to be really successful in selling the Curl and definitively not in the price region of the Brompton as they initially tried (and even less as "the better Brompton" as they initially tried as well in a kind of ridiculous video). But the Curl is the proof that you can use the form and folding principle of the Brompton legally - if you are different and do not simply copy and clone.

What Brompton does - and I think they are right with that - is to defend their unique shape of the bike as part of the brand and intellectual property. That does not hinder innovations but it stops plain copiers that simply want to profit from Brompton's "fame" and image w/o own innovation. Land Rover did btw. the same in China when Landwind directly cloned the shape and appearance of an earlier version of their Discovery a couple of years ago and succeeded with suing that behaviour even in China. I think (if I remember correctly) even "After Eight" has done the same with products that copied their appearance and were sold at discounters for a cheap price. And all they have is a square piece of chocolate with mint in it in a dark green packaging. ;) Since being taken over by Nestle they even have changed their traditional recipe for cheaper, less healthy ingredients to rise profits.
The really interesting thing is that until now nobody has managed to successfully create a folder that folds as good or better than the Brompton and is better in other aspects (be it price, riding or whatever) w/o copying the Brompton. The only one I am aware of who went down a totally new and different approach with a promising outcome is Peter Boutakis with the Helix and he has probably had a very hard time over the last six years, until now still not having managed to build and ship more than about half of the 1.x00 bikes he sold in his campaign at Kickstarter back in 2015. Apart from that a great folder and bike, but not of much practical use in daily life until now. Thus not really a competition or replacement for the Brompton for most people. And not on the cheap side of life as well.
 
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Schwinnsta

Senior Member
Stainless is easier to weld. It is readily available. Is a lot cheaper. Similar tube sizes for say, a Brompton clone, can be used. No paint needed. A metallurgist would be needed to comment on the relative strengths when compared to other steel types. Regular DF bikes have been built in stainless, but maybe an issue for a folding bikes, ie fatigue failure in the hinge area? - not sure on this one. I built my recumbent trike and LWB in stainless - no issues. One thing I remember from my career as a welder, many moons ago, the machinists hated Ti - a very tough material on the lathe trying to prep up a weld joint. Anyways, all grist to the mill :okay:
If you're saying this compared to ti, then yes. I see no advantage compared to plain steel. Stainless still rusts (stains less) and it cost more than plain. Stainless costs a lot more than plain steel here.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
I think the weight of a B is a significant downside. When I was doing my long complicated train and Brompton commute I certainly felt the weight of the thing going up and down stairs. And I'm a fairly hefty male, I can imagine other riders feeling it even more.

I'd love to magic it into a lighter bike. But I'm not so keen on paying zillions of squid for lightness.
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
I think weight is very important on a folder. I have taken a Brompton on the Tube in London. You are not permitted to go on the escalators when carrying a folding bike. It is not much fun lugging 26lb in one hand, up hundreds of steps
I didn't know that. I've been on escalators* a lot with mine and no one told me off. Now I know this, I'll have a massive guilty/shifty look about me when I do it and will get arrested and locked up.

* In railway stations, but not on the tube. Not sure I've ever taken my B on the tube.
 
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