Target pavement cyclists, say MPs

[ComedyPilot]

I think fraudulent claiming by MPs of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money is more of a concern to me than their 'concerns' about cyclists

 

[brokenbetty]

So in the absence of any kind of safe cycle path, for users too new - nervous - lacking in skill etc, where are they going to ride?

They do what learner drivers do - drive on quiet roads and build up their confidence.

If you aren't comfortable on a busy road, you get off the bike and wheel it along the pavement. You don't just cycle on the pavement for your own convenience.

I have to ask, at what point did you start to ride on the road?

Before I was 10. It would have been embarassing any other way.

When I see anyone older than about 12 riding on the pavement I just think "what a wuss"

Liz

 

[WeeE]

.. cycle training is run all over the country to enable people (and kids) to cycle safely and confidently as an equal in traffic on the roads.

Sorry - you're just flat-out factually wrong, and not just wrong but really wrong. I live in one on the UK's largest cities, Glasgow. While urging us to get on our bikes, the local authority blithely refer you to a charity for learner tuition: the website looks full of possibilities. However, it turns out the charity only provides tuition to children and to adults being certificated as tutors. But for beginner-adults - nothing.

Contact your local authority and follow up on whoever they put you in touch with. You may get a bit of a shock. The adult tuition you (and I) complacently assume is in place all over the country is not - not by any stretch of the imagination.

In the end, the charity recommended that I hire a private tutor - in Edinburgh: (Not unlike a lot of other new cyclists, I imagine, I can't afford to go to Edinburgh, let alone hire a private tutor. And if I did, I'd first have to cycle through two city-centres in order to get to a lesson.)

 

[John the Monkey]

urely it makes sense to concentrate resources on the biggest danger and the area that can really save lives?

Unitl it costs votes, of course, at which point we go back to the populist, and low cost option of Policing those causing less danger.

 

[Mr Pig]

The police round my way cycle on the pavement all the time! Saw two last night.

 

[rh100]

Sorry, I disagree with most of this.

If a child is learning to ride a small cycle on the pavement under the supervision of their parents, then that is fair enough, but cycle training is run all over the country to enable people (and kids) to cycle safely and confidently as an equal in traffic on the roads.

Moped riders are not allowed on the road before doing a CBT (compulsory basic training) and nearly all cyclists have the ability to attain the max design speed of moped on a gradient.

Cycles belong on the road and those using the paths just reinfiorce the notion that their users have no legal or moral right to be there.

OK, fair enough, you learnt as a youngster as some others have also said, I sincerely think that that is great.

But what about people starting later in life, where do they learn, training courses can only be so good - would any one of these instructors take learners through massive intersections and along dual carriageways etc, I might be wrong but I doubt it.

Yes, learners do start to learn on small roads, and they need a licence because they are in a dangerous vehicle, not because the other vehicles are a danger to them.

A dangerous cyclist can be dangerous on the road aswell, just because they are on the road does not make them any better.

Brokenbetty, calling anyone who rides on a pavement a wuss is just plain ignorant.

 

[WeeE]

I notice that an awful lot of you, when talking about pavement cycling assume that new cyclists will have a driving licence, or don't have one because they've been banned. Bbefore you condemn "wusses" cycling on the pavement, have a wee think on how you'd have felt on your first-ever time on the road as a learner driver if you were expected to just get in the car and drive down the road alone - albeit in your protective metal tank.

I think you underestimate how many people there are out there for whom just being on a road facing along the way instead of across the way is an entirely new experience.

More than half of the urban poor have never learned to drive. And it's skewed by sex; even fewer women drive. These are the people who could and should benefit by cycling more than anyone else. The big thing stopping them is perfectly rational fear (There are little things too: like social pressure borne of unthinking snobbery and kneejerk condemnation by people who prevfer to keep "chavs" in their place - off bikes.)

These are SCottish statistics, but I don't imagine the situation is far different south of the border.

"In 2007, two-thirds (68 per cent) of adults (aged 17+) had a full driving licence: 78 per cent of men compared to 60 per cent of women, according to the Scottish Household Survey (SHS). The percentage was highest (81 per cent) for those aged between 35 and 44. Licence possession was higher for men than for women in almost every age-group. Possession of a full driving licence increased with income, from 46 per cent of adults living in low-income households (net annual household income of up to £10,000), to 92 per cent of those in high-income households (net annual household income of over £40,000). In rural areas, over four-fifths of adults had a full driving licence, compared with three-fifths in large urban areas."

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Transport-Travel/TrendDrivingLicense

 

[jezhiggins]

Anti-social cycling etc is covered by number four in a list of 7 recommendations, in the PAC report. http://tinyurl.com/ygtezuc

Interesting and revealing use of language in the conclusions. It says that there is "a strongly held perception that, through the irresponsible behaviour of some cyclists, they are a hazard to themselves and other road users" and so the DoT should "devise education, training and publicity measures to target such anti-social behaviour, particularly when it breaks traffic laws".

The unsurprising conclusion that "speed is an overwhelming factor in the incidence and severity of injuries to pedestrians and cyclists" leads to a much more softly worded recommendation. To counteract speeding the Department should "promote measures to reduce speed, including the use of speed cameras, 20 miles per hour zones and road humps, to encourage local highway authorities to adopt them and to influence the attitudes of all road users".

Cyclists should be targetted, even when not breaking the law. Speeding motorists who are breaking the law should be influenced.

Hmm.

 

[WeeE]

" drive on quiet roads and build up their confidence."

Very nice. And for those who don't live in the leafy suburbs...?

 

[GrasB]

I have to ask, at what point did you start to ride on the road?

My grandfather, who was a driving instructor, taught me to ride in the middle of Bolsover, Derbyshire when I was 7 or 8. First day or 2 was up & down a quiet side road getting used to riding, manoeuvring & signalling on the bike. Then we had daily rides through the town where he corrected things I was doing wrong. When he said I was ready to ride on my own my parents thought it was safe for me to ride anywhere I wanted to with in the town as long as I was on the road. I've never felt the need to cycle on the pavement.

 

[brokenbetty]

To suggest that anyone wanting to ride a bike should be able to manage the most congested and fastest of roads is disappointing.

Who said they should?

Anyone who finds themself faced with a road they aren't confident on can get off and wheel the bike. They aren't glued to the saddle. Unlike a car you can move it as easily as it can move you. That is what makes a bike a uniquly accessible type of transport.

I really don't understand "I won't ride on the road so I have to ride on the pavement"

Liz

 

[brokenbetty]

" drive on quiet roads and build up their confidence."

Very nice. And for those who don't live in the leafy suburbs...?

Ah, like me you mean?

They wheel the bike to a quieter road, which almost everywhere in the urban UK is no further than a block or so.

Liz

 

[GrasB]

" drive on quiet roads and build up their confidence."

Very nice. And for those who don't live in the leafy suburbs...?

I'm sure you can find a quiet side street or 2, I learnt in the middle of a fairly busy town but there were still a number of residential side roads to practice in.

 

[BentMikey]

As I suggested before, take a trip to Holland where there is plenty of separate provision, but the whole attitude about cyclists on roads is completely different to here.

This bit is boll0cks, because if you'd ridden there and not used a path where there is one, you'd have been beeped.

 

[rh100]

I notice that an awful lot of you, when talking about pavement cycling assume that new cyclists will have a driving licence, or don't have one because they've been banned. Bbefore you condemn "wusses" cycling on the pavement, have a wee think on how you'd have felt on your first-ever time on the road as a learner driver if you were expected to just get in the car and drive down the road alone - albeit in your protective metal tank.

I think you underestimate how many people there are out there for whom just being on a road facing along the way instead of across the way is an entirely new experience.

More than half of the urban poor have never learned to drive. And it's skewed by sex; even fewer women drive. These are the people who could and should benefit by cycling more than anyone else. The big thing stopping them is perfectly rational fear (There are little things too: like social pressure borne of unthinking snobbery and kneejerk condemnation by people who prevfer to keep "chavs" in their place - off bikes.)

These are SCottish statistics, but I don't imagine the situation is far different south of the border.

"In 2007, two-thirds (68 per cent) of adults (aged 17+) had a full driving licence: 78 per cent of men compared to 60 per cent of women, according to the Scottish Household Survey (SHS). The percentage was highest (81 per cent) for those aged between 35 and 44. Licence possession was higher for men than for women in almost every age-group. Possession of a full driving licence increased with income, from 46 per cent of adults living in low-income households (net annual household income of up to £10,000), to 92 per cent of those in high-income households (net annual household income of over £40,000). In rural areas, over four-fifths of adults had a full driving licence, compared with three-fifths in large urban areas."

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Transport-Travel/TrendDrivingLicense

To be fair, I think term used for Chav when on here is taken to mean a type of rider, rather than any social connotation. I take it to mean young lad, earphones in, mobile phone to ear single handed weaving everywhere type - and it's my experience that these types will ride anywhere, pavement or road and not look whilst changing between the two with no respect for ANY other road users and paying no attention to safety.