Target pavement cyclists, say MPs

[WeeE]

Oh, and another one: Where do the cycle paths get built?
(a) the crummy east-end arse-ends of cities
or
( the rather nice university areas, business districts and west-end commute-routes

 

[very-near]

Oh, and another one: Where do the cycle paths get built?
(a) the crummy east-end arse-ends of cities
or
( the rather nice university areas, business districts and west-end commute-routes

Where I live, the west end is the rough area, and the east end is the posh one, and it is the poor area where the cyclepath money has been spent

 

[rh100]

Well, that's how people learn to drive safely. They don't get anywhere they want to go at first, they go up and down the quiet streets building their skills.

They don't say "I'm not ready to go on a main road yet but I really want to drive to the shops so I'll go on the pavement instead".

You don't spend ages going up and down side streets for no reason, you just keep on quiet roads until you feel confident trying busier ones. And if you don't want to do that, that's your call, but that doesn't give Joe Bloggs the right to ride on the pavement just because he can't be bothered to learn road skills.

And if that 6 mile journey to the shops is so much on busy roads that he would end up pushing the bike all the way, then yes, for that journey he should still be on the bus. That doesn't stop him using the bike to go to the corner shop half a mile away, and maybe after a few trips like that the busy road will look a bit less scary.

Oh, and you learn busy junctions by working up from un-busy ones.

Liz

Agreed, it's not about those not being bothered to learn though, it's about increasing in confidence for those that are.

No-one is going to be encouraged to take up cycling with this method, there becomes no purpose to the ride. I've learn't what I have by commuting and going wherever, over that period my skills and confidence have increased. I quickly found that going by road is much faster than on pavement - and that was more of an incentive to try it than anything else. Tootling around side streets avoiding everything makes it seem pointless. Use the path when you feel like it on your way somewhere, so long as it is SAFE to do so, and use the road when you feel confident to do so, the rest comes naturally IMO.

I do think we are making a mistake comparing cars to bikes though, whilst they supposedly share the same traffic lanes, cars have millions of pounds worth (R&D wise) of safety for the driver, cutting edge technology. A cyclist is essentially on a design that hasn't changed any over 100 years - except maybe a helmet and hi-viz

 

[jimboalee]

The Ex mrs jimboalee. She left me for a bike

 

[WeeE]

Where I live ... it is the poor area where the cyclepath money has been spent

Great! Who's your local authority? I'd love to be able to find any online documentation they have about how/why they decided to site their cyclepaths.

 

[brokenbetty]

Agreed, it's not about those not being bothered to learn though, it's about increasing in confidence for those that are.

I am more cynical than you I'm afraid: I think the majority of pavement riders will stay on the pavement forever. After all, on the pavement a bike is big and fast and people get out of the way - that's exactly NOT the skills you want to develop for the road

But having to wheel your bike on the pavement - now that is a good motivator to get out on the road where you can ride.

 

[rh100]

fair enough - will agree to disagree

 

[WimbledonCyclist]

The thread is veering towards a discussion of the pros and cons of cycling on the pavement. It's fair that we should be discussing that, but it does distract from the bigger issues in traffic.

But to get back on topic: I'd rather see the parliamentary committee aim for safer traffic generally, especially a reduction in road deaths and serious injuries. By shifting the discussion to nuisance cyclists, they're blocking out time they could use to sort out more important problems first.

 

[very-near]

Great! Who's your local authority? I'd love to be able to find any online documentation they have about how/why they decided to site their cyclepaths.

Cheltenham BC. We have some converted railway lines with a decent surface which goes through the St Pauls area (dodgy council estate I used to live next to), and the main drag along Princess Elizabeth way has a shared path which has been painted (PE way cuts through the Hesters way area and there is no shortage of social depravation there)

The east end of the town (Charlton Kings) is by comparison well posh.

 

[Dan B]

Having now read the report and the minutes of a meeting that wa submitted as oral evidence to it, I have to point out that this is pretty much exactly what they did. It's the Daily Wail spin which has transformed it into "targetting pavement cyclists"

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmpubacc/665/665.pdf

1. Child pedestrians from the most deprived areas remain four times more likely to
be killed or injured on the roads than those from the least deprived areas. The
Department should give priority to promoting targeted road safety schemes in
deprived areas that suffer most from child pedestrian casualties.
2. Speed is an overwhelming factor in the incidence and severity of injuries to
pedestrians and cyclists, whose chances of survival diminish rapidly at speeds
over 20 miles per hour. The Department should promote measures to reduce speed,
including the use of speed cameras, 20 miles per hour zones and road humps, to
encourage local highway authorities to adopt them and to influence the attitudes of
all road users.
3. Despite its leading role in the promotion of road safety the Department does not
always know about successful schemes undertaken by local areas, such as the
Lothian Borders, and does not engage sufficiently with practitioners. The
Department should actively seek examples of successful road safety schemes run by
local highway authorities and issue guidance on how these can be used more widely
in ways that practitioners find easy to accommodate.
4. It is surprising that the Department was unaware of a strongly held perception
that, through the irresponsible behaviour of some cyclists, they are a hazard to
themselves and other road users. The Department should devise education, training
and publicity measures to target such anti-social behaviour, particularly when it
breaks traffic laws.
5. There is substantial evidence that fewer people would be killed and seriously
injured on Great Britain's roads if this country were to put the clocks forward by
one hour throughout the year. The Department should take the lead in re-
examining the practice of changing clocks at the end of British Summer Time with
other central Government departments.
6. The Department recognises that the police data used to measure its road safety
performance consistently understate the numbers of road casualties each year
and it is attempting to clarify this by matching these data with those collected by
the National Health Service. When it has completed this work, planned for Summer
2009, it should devise a formula for adjusting the police data in reporting progress
against its targets each year.
7. Road safety is not the first priority for some organisations with which the
Department works, for example other central Government departments, but they
can be influential. The Department should develop an explicit strategy to promote
its road safety priorities more effectively among those who can influence the success
of road safety measures.

 

[MartinC]

Linf. Points of fact. The one converted railway line (which is superb, I use it frequently) goes through a mix of areas. St Pauls isn't a council estate, but is one of the poorer areas of Cheltenham, I live there now. There are cycle lanes and paths in Lansdown, Pittville and The Park which are amongst the better heeled parts of 'Nam.

I agree with the point Mr Paul's been trying to get across - he's struggled because people in this country are brought up in a car centric culture. It's a fallacy that cyclist have to be treated either as cars or pedestrians. They're neither and need to be treated as cyclists. A confident adult cyclist riding on the road is fine and so is an inexperienced youth riding carefully on the pavement.

Back to the OP. The Select Committee included in it's 7 point summary one based on a "perception" (didn't say whose) that cyclists were a risk to themselves and others and recommended action to correct this. When it looked at other more concretely established and more serious risks to vulnerable road users (i.e. Drivers behaviour) it was more muted in it's recommendations. This is clearly looking down the wrong end of the telescope

 

[mark i]

I cycle 14 miles home in an evening, almost all on the road. In the last 1/2 mile there is a double traffic light junction. I need to turn right onto the Solihull bypass and then right again. The problem is that the traffic on the bypass often tries to race out of the two lanes of the 1st junction. i.e. if I am the last one of a few turning right at the 1st set of lights, I now potentially have someone racing off the 1st set of lights, trying to squeeze in. It is not a situation I have any control of as I am stationary waiting to turn right, I need an alternative. There is usually 1 accident a month there. Given I feel terribly exposed I tend to go 10m on the pavement at around 4mph according to my cycle computer and give way to the traffic.

The issue on that junction is the exposed right turn.

 

[ComedyPilot]

........ya da ya da...................some writing............ This is clearly looking down the wrong end of the telescope

But at least they have now got the telescope and are looking through it.

 

[MartinC]

But at least they have now got the telescope and are looking through it.

LOL. Agree with that!

 

[GrasB]

5. There is substantial evidence that fewer people would be killed and seriously injured on Great Britain's roads if this country were to put the clocks forward by one hour throughout the year. The Department should take the lead in re-examining the practice of changing clocks at the end of British Summer Time with other central Government departments.

This is something that does need to be at least tried. That said I always get the feeling that this won't improve things just spread the associated problem about a little more.