Target pavement cyclists, say MPs

[rh100]

Do you mean giving you carte blanch to terrorise peds on pavements which you have no legal right of way when you cycle commute ?

Quote: Over 4 milliion people take part in horse riding in the UK each year. The equestrian sector is worth £4.3 billion in the UK alone. Just because you don't see many horse riders in the centre of Brum doesn't mean that this is a minority activity.

And how much of that is used as a means of practical transport, rather than a pastime?

 

[very-near]

Quote: Over 4 milliion people take part in horse riding in the UK each year. The equestrian sector is worth £4.3 billion in the UK alone. Just because you don't see many horse riders in the centre of Brum doesn't mean that this is a minority activity.

And how much of that is used as a means of practical transport, rather than a pastime?

I cycle for leisure, I drive and ride a m/cycle for practical transport. Are you suggesting I shoud stop cycling because I don't use it to get to work ?

 

[very-near]

No they haven't. And I'm asking you what you think.


Unfortunately for you horseriding is a pretty minority activity. It's not a realistic and workable practical alternative form of transport. And as such, there's less of a drive to get horse tracks in urban areas.

Perhaps if sustrans were to accept that horses are a fairly sustainable form of transport, then many of these routes would be available to horse riders as well as cyclists and peds. They have been converting bridlways to sustrans routes and removing the rights of horseriders to use them. This is wrong IMO and has been done by a Government who see's horseriding as a 'toffs' hobby which they will do anything to stick the boot in with (like hunting)

Have another go.


Not at all. That would be a stupid position, and not one that I've suggested at all.

Please linf, I know it's Friday but you could join in and have a decent conversation rather than just disgreeing because it's me. You managed it last night.

You know I keep horses. There is a chronic enough shortage of suitable hacking at the best of times. I have to box and transport across the far side of town to get to decent hacking in the winter as it gets waterlogged where we keep them.

 

[very-near]

It is also a criminal offense to throw a sweetie wrapper out of the window of a car.

If that sweetie wrapper was to hit a pedestrian and cause irrepairable, life changing injury, would the filthy B in the car be chased down and imprisoned?

Chances are the sweetie wrapper would simply roll to a halt and get rolled over by a cyclist. Or kicked straight into a pillar box letter slot by a budding Premiership soccer star. Or worse still, be trampled by a blindman on a galloping horse.

Then no-one would be the wiser.

Whatever you are smoking this morning is playing with your mind Jim

 

[rh100]

I cycle for leisure, I drive and ride a m/cycle for practical transport. Are you suggesting I shoud stop cycling because I don't use it to get to work ?

Erm.. I don't think I said that did I? I asked you a question. You mentioned how big the equestrian market is, but it won't make a difference how big it is unless that mode of transport is used as a practical means of transport, which it clearly isn't.

Cycles are a practical way of replacing cars - not just for commuting either - it's replaced one of mine, therefore there is a reason to look to improve/change ways people are able to cycle everywhere.

 

[jimboalee]

We know riding a bicycle ( adult ) on the footpath is illegal.
So is dropping litter.

If a pedestrian objects to the cyclist on the pavement, there will either be a word of annoyance and an appology, or there may be an exchange of a few rude words. But when the two parties have gone their seperate ways, there is nothing left but memories.

Litter, on the other hand, remains where it falls ( contrary to my story ) and eventually accumulates to an unhealthy and dangerous state. Fly tipping an example. Supermarket carrier bags stuffed into hedgerows. Half eaten Chicken Vindaloo still in its foil tray. Chip papers thrown onto front lawns.

There is 'dog fouling'. It happens, and when our kids step in some dog droppings, it is more of a concern than that chap on his bike who rode past on the pavement.

Motorists repairing their cars on the road outside where they live. This is not allowed. They leave oil slicks and patches of rough tarmac where petrol has dissolved the asphalt.
The oil slicks are a danger to pedestrians and cyclists alike.
And I bet he tipped the old oil down a drain in the next street.


So on the balance of things, is a cyclist on the pavement a subject worth getting 'fussed up' about?

 

[very-near]

We know riding a bicycle ( adult ) on the footpath is illegal.
So is dropping litter.

If a pedestrian objects to the cyclist on the pavement, there will either be a word of annoyance and an appology, or there may be an exchange of a few rude words. But when the two parties have gone their seperate ways, there is nothing left but memories.

Litter, on the other hand, remains where it falls ( contrary to my story ) and eventually accumulates to an unhealthy and dangerous state. Fly tipping an example. Supermarket carrier bags stuffed into hedgerows. Half eaten Chicken Vindaloo still in its foil tray. Chip papers thrown onto front lawns.

There is 'dog fouling'. It happens, and when our kids step in some dog droppings, it is more of a concern than that chap on his bike who rode past on the pavement.

Motorists repairing their cars on the road outside where they live. This is not allowed. They leave oil slicks and patches of rough tarmac where petrol has dissolved the asphalt.
The oil slicks are a danger to pedestrians and cyclists alike.
And I bet he tipped the old oil down a drain in the next street.


So on the balance of things, is a cyclist on the pavement a subject worth getting 'fussed up' about?

Yes

 

[HJ]

...
That is what worries me - why not clamp down on ALL inappropriate behavior regardless of the vehicle

+1

 

[Trevrev]

We know riding a bicycle ( adult ) on the footpath is illegal.
So is dropping litter.

If a pedestrian objects to the cyclist on the pavement, there will either be a word of annoyance and an appology, or there may be an exchange of a few rude words. But when the two parties have gone their seperate ways, there is nothing left but memories.

Litter, on the other hand, remains where it falls ( contrary to my story ) and eventually accumulates to an unhealthy and dangerous state. Fly tipping an example. Supermarket carrier bags stuffed into hedgerows. Half eaten Chicken Vindaloo still in its foil tray. Chip papers thrown onto front lawns.

There is 'dog fouling'. It happens, and when our kids step in some dog droppings, it is more of a concern than that chap on his bike who rode past on the pavement.

Motorists repairing their cars on the road outside where they live. This is not allowed. They leave oil slicks and patches of rough tarmac where petrol has dissolved the asphalt.
The oil slicks are a danger to pedestrians and cyclists alike.
And I bet he tipped the old oil down a drain in the next street.


So on the balance of things, is a cyclist on the pavement a subject worth getting 'fussed up' about?

Well said.......!!!

 

[HJ]

Sorry, I thought I'd made myself clear, especially as others understand what I'm saying. Which is not that every route should be available to every cyclist.

Why not??

 

[summerdays]

If there is no quiet alternative and you refuse to take the busy road and you refuse to push your bike, you will have to accept that taking that particular route by bike is not an option for you.

I have one place in Bristol that I'm not keen on - 3 lanes wide, up hill gyratory (?spelling) system. Two of the lanes are solid traffic waiting for the lights to change, meaning the left lane - the one I'm in is the only lane moving. I can cycle up there - but very slowly - about 6 mph on a main route out of Bristol, with lorries breathing down your neck unable to pass because of the traffic in the other 2 lanes. I did try on the pavement - as nobody was walking on it - but I'm not really an illegal pavement fan for myself, even with Paul Boateng's comments:

"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

I have solved my problem by finding an alternative route with a legal cycle path through a park - but if it was night time I wouldn't use it. Luckily I don't have to work over that direction very often. But it means I share the path with pedestrians that way too - probably more pedestrians as its in a park rather than next to a busy road..

I suspect the reason I see more antisocial cycling than you is because I pay a lot of attention to how pedestrians react to cyclists.

Maybe the attitude of London pavement cyclists is more agressive than elsewhere - certainly that used to be the case of London drivers?

There are good and bad pavement cyclists - whether they should be doing it is a separate point.

I use share use pavements such as in the town centre and know that you have to reduce your speed on there. I don't shout if a pedestrian changes direction and walks across my path, just apply the brakes as needed. Those sort of areas are nice places to exchange a smile with a fellow commuter, and escape the concentration on the car for a few moments.

 

[jimboalee]

This is very spooky.

( If you're reading this, chap, I've no objection ).

I rode from Solihull to Birmingham this afternoon to pick up some new spectacles. I was on my 36lb Apollo County, 68" top ratio.

On the trip, I rode from the Redhill Tavern ( A45 Coventry Rd ) to the Birmingham City football ground. A distance of about 3 miles through Small Heath, with a pavement cyclist alongside me. He went across the ped crossings and the sideroads without a hoot of concern. He must do it every day.

At the traffic signals where Cattel Rd joins Cov' Rd, I waited at the red for him. The lights turned green before he was back with me.

Observation 1. Riding on the pavement is no faster than the road. That includes the no-stop approach to TLs and T juncs.

Observation 2. Motorists in sideroads blocked HIS way, not mine.

Observation 3. No peds complained.

Conclusion. There was no objection from any Ped or other road user, but the pavement cyclist's progress was more complicated, obstucted and slower.

 

[BentMikey]

Conclusion. There was no objection from any Ped or other road user, but the pavement cyclist's progress was more complicated, obstucted and slower.

And considerably more dangerous, though it might take many thousands of similar and measured journeys before that became apparent.

 

[rh100]

This is very spooky.

( If you're reading this, chap, I've no objection ).

I rode from Solihull to Birmingham this afternoon to pick up some new spectacles. I was on my 36lb Apollo County, 68" top ratio.

On the trip, I rode from the Redhill Tavern ( A45 Coventry Rd ) to the Birmingham City football ground. A distance of about 3 miles through Small Heath, with a pavement cyclist alongside me. He went across the ped crossings and the sideroads without a hoot of concern. He must do it every day.

At the traffic signals where Cattel Rd joins Cov' Rd, I waited at the red for him. The lights turned green before he was back with me.

Observation 1. Riding on the pavement is no faster than the road. That includes the no-stop approach to TLs and T juncs.

Observation 2. Motorists in sideroads blocked HIS way, not mine.

Observation 3. No peds complained.

Conclusion. There was no objection from any Ped or other road user, but the pavement cyclist's progress was more complicated, obstucted and slower.

Yes, you get the right of way on the main carriageway (obviously), crossing from kerb to kerb is a pain as your way gets blocked, this is a problem with a marked cycle path also. A lot of drivers will give you the room to get past.

This was a motivator for me to use the road instead where able, being able to keep the momentum up.

 

[jimboalee]

And considerably more dangerous, though it might take many thousands of similar and measured journeys before that became apparent.

The only way, as I saw, the pavement cyclist's journey would be more dangerous, is if a 6 foot skinhead stepped in the guy's path and punched him in the jaw.

And of course the two window fitters with the sheet of glass.