Tax, MOT & Insurance

[Arch]

Change your chocolate biscuits for Jaffa Cakes and you can still enjoy VAT free fuel!

Yebbut, I'd eat a whole packet at once!

 

[dondare]

May I ask why not?

Regarding road tax (or road fund licence if you prefer) As I see it, we use the roads, so why shouldn't we pay for them?
As for MOTs, how many occasionally users regularly maintain their bikes?
Insurance is a must surely? I don't believe that there has never been a case where a bike has hit a car....

Here you have it.

To most people Road Tax = Road Fund Licence Fee.

The Road Fund Licence Fee ceased to be hypothecated in 1936.
The Road Fund was subsequently abolished. It no longer exists.
Therefore Road Tax no longer exists.

 

[dondare]

The problem with that is the cost of the exercise. I saw once, someone worked out that to issue a free disc to all cyclists every year would mean adding a tenner to the cost of the paid for ones - or you have to charge an admin fee to everyone.

So either you can't make it really free, or you penalise others - the latter might be good in some ways, and a good argument against the slackjawed shouty moton, but difficult to get across in the few seconds you generally have to 'correspond' with them.

Do away with VED and slap up fuel, with a decent benefit system to help out those who really do rely on a car, like disabled people. But that'll never happen.

Is there VAT on petrol as well as duty? If so, when VAT goes up, we have an advantage, since our fuel is VAT free (unless you count chocolate biscuits and other luxuries).

VED is not just a way of raising money. It is a way of keeping tabs on (motor-)vehicle ownership and needs to be kept for that reason.

There is not only VAT on fuel, there is VAT on the duty on fuel. So if fuel duty goes up 1p, that's actually 1.175p, and will soon be 1.2p.

(There is also tax on beer so some cyclists, at any rate, are charged for their fuel.)

 

[Arch]

VED is not just a way of raising money. It is a way of keeping tabs on (motor-)vehicle ownership and needs to be kept for that reason.

Yeah, good point. Ok, make it nominal, and slap the duty on fuel.

There is not only VAT on fuel, there is VAT on the duty on fuel. So if fuel duty goes up 1p, that's actually 1.175p, and will soon be 1.2p.

(There is also tax on beer so some cyclists, at any rate, are charged for their fuel.)

There we are - you can't drink and drive so drivers save on the beer duty... All's fair etc...

 

[wafflycat]

WTF!?! If I was required to pay a fee (call it a tax or what ever you choose) that allowed my children to attend school then there would be a school tax. I'm sure you'd call it something else. But there isn't. There is however a tax that is required to be paid to use a vehicle on the road. So its logical to call it a road tax. The tax is nothing to do with vehicles that are not on the road, only those that use the road.

To *use* a vehicle on the road you require a driving licence. VED is no more than a tax on the vehicle that allows someone to have a vehicle parked on a public road where it is not causing an obstruction.

It is entirely possible to *use* a vehicle on the road without paying any supposed 'road tax' Indeed I was doing so today.

 

[Davidc]

To *use* a vehicle on the road you require a driving licence.

Unless the vehicle is a bicycle....

The VED thing is all a bit crazy now anyway. There are plenty of cars around which aren't paying any because their emissions are low. The WC vehicle may have been one for all I know!

(Presumably those who think bikes shouldn't be on the road 'cos they pay none also expect the owners of Fiestas and Citroen C1s to keep their cars off the road as well?)

 

[wafflycat]

Unless the vehicle is a bicycle....

Well the licence is in respect of motor vehicles...

 

[dondare]

Unless the vehicle is a bicycle....

The VED thing is all a bit crazy now anyway. There are plenty of cars around which aren't paying any because their emissions are low.

They still need the disc, tho'.

The WC vehicle may have been one for all I know!

(Presumably those who think bikes shouldn't be on the road 'cos they pay none also expect the owners of Fiestas and Citroen C1s to keep their cars off the road as well?)

Probably that's exactly what they think. Only people whose vehicles pump toxic and environmentally harmful vapours, gases and particulates into the air have any right to use the roads. Everyone else is just a free-loading, woolly liberal hippy parasite who should be living on a communal farm in Wales knitting yogurt.

 

[PBancroft]

Thinking about this, what needs to be done is to tax the road user, not the vehicle.

At a certain stage in their lives, everyone learns basic road skills. This allows them to be a pedestrian or cyclist - lets make it part of the curriculum since it is part of daily life. £0 rate tax, and no need for a card.

As time goes on, the individual learns more skills. They know how to drive a car, but in order to do so they pay a tax. Should they wish to stop, or not bother driving a car, they don't pay for the licence to drive therefore they pay less.

To drive a bigger vehicle than a car they pay a higher tax, assuming they have passed the test to do so.

You may argue this isn't THAT different to the current system, but think on this: those who claim a "road tax" would see an immediate correlation between the vehicle they choose to be ABLE to use, and the price to the tax. Give up using cars, pay less tax.