dicko
Legendary Member
- Location
- Derbyshire
£35 per annum for our Ka with unlimited miles it’s really great value.
Taxation on Motoring
- Thread starter presta
- Start date
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Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Value for you. Not such good news for the environment it damages, which is out of proportion with your costs.
Most are sold as trendy cars. Low sales, high prices. The Smart Fortwo is one that has been around a long time. Tiny yet more expensive than the bigger small cars from Toyota, Citroen and Peugeot B Zero project cars, essentially based around a Daihatsu Charades engine.
China does it right with their $2000 cars, though of course they have 100s of millions there aspiring towards car ownership.
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Profpointy
Legendary Member
I don't see the value of that at all. Fuel used, and hence duty paid is in direct proportion to how much you used, with a built in penalty for excessively large and over engined vehicles and also costing more in stop start traffic. A multi billion point tracking system would add
little.
Granted there'll be a need for sometjing for lecci cars soon
Regular.Cyclist
Über Member
- Location
- South West Scotland 🏴
VED has always baffled me. My current car was £0 up until this year and is now only £20 whereas my wife’s car is £165 despite being small and less powerful and put out nearly identical CO2. The Ford Mustang I owned a few years ago, with an absolutely humongous engine and gething 15 to the gallon on a good day, wasn’t much more.
Pay per mile with a multiplier for engine size and a reduced rate for rural and disabled people would be my choice.
Pay per mile with a multiplier for engine size and a reduced rate for rural and disabled people would be my choice.
vickster
Squire
Does it run on air? Or sit on your drive 365/24/7?
vickster
Squire
You now pay VED on EVs and Congestion Charge (at least in London)
Dogtrousers
Lefty tighty. Get it righty.
Thing is, we have, over a period of 60 or so years shaped a car centric society. And there's a hell of a lot to undo/redo.
I live in London, with plentiful good public transport. I very rarely use my car and only ride my bike for fun.
But I have friends who live out in the sticks, and living there without a car is awkward. There are no shops or other services in the village - all long since closed down. Supermarkets are clustered on main roads. The railway went with Beeching. Bus service is stupidly bad. And over time the way we work has changed. People accept long commutes that can only be driven. Houses are built with this expectation.
So while getting urbanites to stop doing half mile runs to the shops in their cars would be a welcome (if incredibly hard) step, there are still a ton of people for whom the only solution is "live somewhere else" at least until local services can be built up or replacements like working from home, vehicle sharing, on demand transport services, decent public transport, efficient delivery and I don't know what can take up the slack.
I live in London, with plentiful good public transport. I very rarely use my car and only ride my bike for fun.
But I have friends who live out in the sticks, and living there without a car is awkward. There are no shops or other services in the village - all long since closed down. Supermarkets are clustered on main roads. The railway went with Beeching. Bus service is stupidly bad. And over time the way we work has changed. People accept long commutes that can only be driven. Houses are built with this expectation.
So while getting urbanites to stop doing half mile runs to the shops in their cars would be a welcome (if incredibly hard) step, there are still a ton of people for whom the only solution is "live somewhere else" at least until local services can be built up or replacements like working from home, vehicle sharing, on demand transport services, decent public transport, efficient delivery and I don't know what can take up the slack.
OP
OP
presta
Legendary Member
Drivers will argue they can't manage without a car, but usually deny that a society that's been systematically designed around cars for the last century is disadvantaging those who don't have one.
Drivers will argue that they're one of the ones who really need a car, but where are the ones who don't? Why are they always so quiet? Without those, the roads would be half empty, and a lot less congested for those who do have to use them.
Drivers ignore that it's cars that popularised commuting, and turned villages from thriving communities into dormitories for the rich, and playgrounds for the rest.
Drivers will argue that they need a car to commute, but ignore the research which shows that longer commutes lead to lower levels of happiness and higher divorce rates.
Drivers will argue that there isn't enough public transport, but neglect to mention that it was cars that killed it off in the first place.
Drivers will argue that public transport is too expensive and inconvenient, which is precisely why car transport should be less attractive than all the alternatives. The cost isn’t all about cash though, it’s also time, inconvenience and above all, low status.
Drivers complain that motoring is too expensive, but motoring inflation is running at less than a third of the general rate whilst bus fares are rising nearly three times faster.
Drivers complain about congestion, but what else is there to limit demand for motor transport? It's certainly not cost, otherwise demand wouldn't keep going up and up.
Drivers complain about a war on cars, but there is no war. Motorists have had it all their own way for a century, and take it so much for granted that they no longer have any conception that it’s others who are being excluded and marginalised.
Drivers fly into a rage if they have to give way or wait for even a few seconds, something they're quick to blame on cyclists, but they do the same with road workers, farmers, lollipop ladies, and even with each other.
We need policies that reverse these trends, but new developments are still perpetuating them. New towns still force car use, employers and traders still provide free car parking, amenities are still separated from living spaces etc.
Cyclists argue for more cycle paths, but Stevenage was built with a comprehensive network, and the cycling rates are no higher there than in other similar towns because motoring was also made too easy. The issue isn’t how many use a new bike lane, it’s how many still use cars.
Drivers who are so enamoured of their cars that they don't mind a society in which they can't manage without one might well ask themselves what they'll do if the DVLA Medical Centre takes their licence. Too often the answer seems to be keep shtum, and carry on driving whilst medically unfit.
There’s no point in having alternatives whilst the status quo still remains more attractive, because they won’t get used in significant numbers by anyone other than those who are already excluded from car use.
Drivers will argue that they're one of the ones who really need a car, but where are the ones who don't? Why are they always so quiet? Without those, the roads would be half empty, and a lot less congested for those who do have to use them.
Drivers ignore that it's cars that popularised commuting, and turned villages from thriving communities into dormitories for the rich, and playgrounds for the rest.
Drivers will argue that they need a car to commute, but ignore the research which shows that longer commutes lead to lower levels of happiness and higher divorce rates.
Drivers will argue that there isn't enough public transport, but neglect to mention that it was cars that killed it off in the first place.
Drivers will argue that public transport is too expensive and inconvenient, which is precisely why car transport should be less attractive than all the alternatives. The cost isn’t all about cash though, it’s also time, inconvenience and above all, low status.
Drivers complain that motoring is too expensive, but motoring inflation is running at less than a third of the general rate whilst bus fares are rising nearly three times faster.
Drivers complain about congestion, but what else is there to limit demand for motor transport? It's certainly not cost, otherwise demand wouldn't keep going up and up.
Drivers complain about a war on cars, but there is no war. Motorists have had it all their own way for a century, and take it so much for granted that they no longer have any conception that it’s others who are being excluded and marginalised.
Drivers fly into a rage if they have to give way or wait for even a few seconds, something they're quick to blame on cyclists, but they do the same with road workers, farmers, lollipop ladies, and even with each other.
We need policies that reverse these trends, but new developments are still perpetuating them. New towns still force car use, employers and traders still provide free car parking, amenities are still separated from living spaces etc.
Cyclists argue for more cycle paths, but Stevenage was built with a comprehensive network, and the cycling rates are no higher there than in other similar towns because motoring was also made too easy. The issue isn’t how many use a new bike lane, it’s how many still use cars.
Drivers who are so enamoured of their cars that they don't mind a society in which they can't manage without one might well ask themselves what they'll do if the DVLA Medical Centre takes their licence. Too often the answer seems to be keep shtum, and carry on driving whilst medically unfit.
There’s no point in having alternatives whilst the status quo still remains more attractive, because they won’t get used in significant numbers by anyone other than those who are already excluded from car use.
Bristolian
Über Member
- Location
- Bristol, UK
Fuel tax is, effectively, a pence per mile tax already - the more mileage you drive the more fuel you use the more fuel duty you pay.
I did a calculation for my driving in 2025 (which is the first full year that I owned my current car). I drove 6352 miles, buying 772 litres of fuel and paying £408.68 in fuel duty - that's 6.47p/mile. Obviously, each drivers' numbers will be different depending on vehicle and driving style but the principle remains the same.
I sort of agree with you but have 3 cars on the driveway.
Oldest daughter needs car to get to Uni and Placements as she is training to be a Nurse. It's almost impossible to get to placements and from patient to patient without a car.
Younger daughter needs car to get to school (cycling is prohibited due to it being on a dangerous route*) plus she will be going to Uni soon and possibly commuting a fair distance.
Wife and I need a car as public transport around here is crap. She uses it mostly, to get to work. I can get by with the bike unless I need a big shop. We used to have a car each but I got rid of the second car as it wasn't used except to go to the station, which I can cycle to (too far to walk, and no busses). The main thing I need a car for (bigger car but not mahoosive) is to accommodate an 88 key hammer action keyboard, amp, stands, stool, etc for when I do gigs.
*note - there would be a completely safe route but it would rely on the multimillionaires in the Burwood Park or St Georges Hill estates letting cyclists use their private roads
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SteveH80
Active Member
My last car was a diesel, £0 vat, my motorbike consumed less fuel and contributed much less wear to the road but cost over £100.
It doesn't make sense but these thing rarely do. Cycling is a prime example, it's touted as environmentally sound yet we have ebikes that are often economic scrap once any part of the drive system dies and carbon fibre bikes that are virtually un-recyclable so end in landfill.
But I don't mind. The car was a work tool, motorbikes and cycles are about making me happy and taxation is a good investment for when I need the NHS.
gbb
Squire
- Location
- Peterborough
One thing (imho) re car ownership is what it gives you in its purest form...freedom. The freedom to travel, where you like when you like, in comfort.
The trouble is, people, dare I say governments without getting political, the entire system has abused it all and its actually gone completely wrong now, there are now too many cars for the road networks to work efficiently (as well as poor maintenance of those networks of course...and.many other things)
One thing we can be sure of...we will all pay more.
The trouble is, people, dare I say governments without getting political, the entire system has abused it all and its actually gone completely wrong now, there are now too many cars for the road networks to work efficiently (as well as poor maintenance of those networks of course...and.many other things)
One thing we can be sure of...we will all pay more.
Gillstay
Veteran
I live out in the sticks and find that although its a nice walk to the pub and 20 mins, my chums who all live closer than me, drive there.
Some are younger than me and live perhaps 8 mins walk from the pub, but drive. Then they pay to go to the gym.
I often see it said that country people need their cars and they do, but they could do an awful lot better.
Some are younger than me and live perhaps 8 mins walk from the pub, but drive. Then they pay to go to the gym.
I often see it said that country people need their cars and they do, but they could do an awful lot better.
OP
OP
presta
Legendary Member
Everyone has a reason why other people should give up driving, and why congestion is other people's cars.
Fuel duty's in line to become as useless as a tax on horseshoes and oats before long.
