Taxation on Motoring

[Dogtrousers]

Fuel duty's in line to become as useless as a tax on horseshoes and oats before long.

Wakes up from slumber....

What's that you say? War on porridge?

 

[icowden]

Define "long". People will still be driving ICE vehicles for decades to come, no matter what this or any other government does short of making them all illegal, and the political party that is prepared to do that hasn't been formed yet.

They don't need to.
Current projections are that EVs will start to outnumber ICE cars somewhere between 2030 and 2040 in most developed countries. This assumes that the current push for zero ICE sales continues and that countries continue to encourage and incentivise EV takeup.

Petrol stations make very little money from petrol. As demand reduces, the price of petrol is only going to go up. As the price goes up, people will switch to EVs more quickly as an ICE becomes expensive to run. And so it snowballs.

So yes, whilst people will still be driving ICE for decades to come, in terms of planning for the economy, it's already on the horizon that fuel duty will drop and become essentially irrelevant. Reeves introduced the concept of pay per mile for EVs and Hybrid precisely because fuel duty receipts are dropping.

 

[Alex321]

I have never understood people's reliance on cars. What really gets to me, is the ever increasing number of househoulds with multiple cars. I regularly see houses with 5+ cars on the drive. I get that with house prices and kids living at home longer, these are often intergenerational households, but every family member does not need their own car!

Well we live in a fairly small village, with virtually no public transport.

We have three vehicles, for a two person family (Kids are all grown and with families of their own),

We have two cars and a camper van.

One small car (Nissan Micra), which my wife drives for almost all her solo transport needs. She caan't walk very far (aged 76 and not in great health), so really needs that car to have any mobility.

And one larger car (Vauxhall Insignia estate), which is the car we use for longer journeys, and the one I use when for any reason I drive to the office rather than cycling. We need two cars because it isn't uncommon for my wife to need to go out when I already have the Insignia somehwere else (she also hates driving the larger car anyhow).

The Camper van is only used when we are going away for anything from a night to a week while staying in the UK and we are going to sleep in it. It is much too big and fuel-hungry (it is based on a Fiat Ducato Max) to be used as a regular vehicle.

None of these vehicles are anywhere near new, BTW - both cars were registered in 2015, the 'van in 2010.

I accept that it is our choice to live where we do, but if you can't live in pleasant (to you) surroundings, what is the point in life?

 

[HMS_Dave]

People will justify their car ownership all day. Everybody has their reasons or excuses. I say excuses as it was referred to me while waiting for a bus not all that long ago by a gentleman who was wheelchair confined and clearly missing a leg while we got onto the subject of transport. I got rid of my car years ago and i do love cars, I used to work on them myself, my dad was a mechanic, his dad was a lorry driver and his uncle was a mechanic. I live in a village and the buses aren't terribly reliable or punctual. It must be difficult having to rely on it for work around here, which may or may not explain why they're not used extensively. I try not to judge people but it is difficult to see why many people have them when they either have their driveways stuffed full of cars and/or they're parked there for 95% of the year. For the "just in case" moment's perhaps. I don't know, i don't ask. It has to be a costly exercise though... But i can honestly say that since i gave it up, i have only missed having it maybe twice in a few years and i thought id find it more difficult.

 

[lazybloke]

I sort of agree with you but have 3 cars on the driveway.

Oldest daughter needs car to get to Uni and Placements as she is training to be a Nurse. It's almost impossible to get to placements and from patient to patient without a car.

Younger daughter needs car to get to school (cycling is prohibited due to it being on a dangerous route*) plus she will be going to Uni soon and possibly commuting a fair distance.

Wife and I need a car as public transport around here is crap. She uses it mostly, to get to work. I can get by with the bike unless I need a big shop. We used to have a car each but I got rid of the second car as it wasn't used except to go to the station, which I can cycle to (too far to walk, and no busses). The main thing I need a car for (bigger car but not mahoosive) is to accommodate an 88 key hammer action keyboard, amp, stands, stool, etc for when I do gigs.

*note - there would be a completely safe route but it would rely on the multimillionaires in the Burwood Park or St Georges Hill estates letting cyclists use their private roads

There's probably a school transport option your younger daughter could use.

Between IT jobs i briefly drove for a (different) school, and actually picked up from Burwood Park on several occasions and also Weybridge & Walton.
Only did St Georges Hill and Whiteley Village once - blimey, some nice places!

 

[icowden]

There's probably a school transport option your younger daughter could use.

Yes. It goes from the station which is 30 minutes walk away and about 8 minutes drive from the school. So I'd be paying far more to get her to school, plus driving her most of the way there anyway. Pointless.

Yes, I've been in Burwood Park (had a cheeky cycle through before they put the gates on) and to St George's Hill once and whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooeeee!

 

[Vapin' Joe]

People will justify their car ownership all day.

I've never felt the need to justify it to anyone.

 

[HMS_Dave]

I've never felt the need to justify it to anyone.

Well, not all people do, thats fair. But i gave it a go and decided i could live without it. Best thing i did for my wallet, my contribution to traffic congestion and environmental impact. I also found driving to be a pretty poor experience on the roads these days.

 

[Dogtrousers]

As an aside, I've just paid my Vehicle Tax.

It was £20

Wanders off muttering about war on motorists.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

People will justify their car ownership all day. Everybody has their reasons or excuses.

I agree but tend to distinguish between ownership and use.

I recognise that car manufacture and end of life recycling causes pollution. But I see a massive difference between somebody using their car minimally for an occasional stock-up shop vs somebody popping in to the shops most days for just a few items.

Car ownership/use can be responsible or can be used without consideration of the impacts.

 

[Alex321]

People will justify their car ownership all day. Everybody has their reasons or excuses.

Why would they need, or even want to "justify" it.

This forum is about teh only place I have seen where people seem to be criticised for owning a car.

 

[HMS_Dave]

Why would they need, or even want to "justify" it.

This forum is about teh only place I have seen where people seem to be criticised for owning a car.

Where am i exactly criticising generalised ownership of a car? People have their reasons and justifications. You typed yours out before my comment above. You state you have X vehicle for X reason. Sounds a lot like a justification. But even so, I even stated i am not necessarily judging but don't understand why people have cars stuffed on their driveways for 95% of the time at great expense. Quite why there is insecurity about this baffles me. It's my opinion and i stand firm on it.

 

[albion]

2027 = year of the bike.
2030 looked impossible yet it now might be sooner.

 

[Dogtrousers]

My own reason for owning a car is a bit thin. The key reason is I like to take my & my wife's bikes to France in the summer and hiring a car with a bike rack is pretty much impossible (or so I found when I looked into it some years ago).

Apart from that I drive to see family and friends a few times a year, but increasingly we use the train these days. And occasionally I buy stuff from the garden centre that needs a car, but I could get that delivered. All the other shopping is delivered or done on foot.

The car stays in the garage for months at a time.

I'm not sure that I'll replace my current one when its time comes. I don't think I could justify the capital spend. Also I have a fear of over-automated modern cars, but I guess I could get over that.

 

[Electric_Andy]

We tried to live with 1 car but could not, so we have 2 again. I also have a 125 scooter but it now only gets used in the sun for pleasure. We have my son 50% of the time, school would be a 1hr 40 min walk and buses are horrendous so car journey (25mins) is the only option. Bike, I would not even cycle myself let alone let me 14 yo do it, ignorant drivers are ruining sustainable transport and it's getting worse. I can only take my scooter to work if I don't have to do school run, which is only 2 days a week so I try to go into the office only when I'm doing school run to save a journey. My partner also works 50 miles away 2x/week and has an autustuc son who's needs often need to overtake everything we have planned. So, it's very easy to justify why you need a car. It's also very easy to criticise car ownership when you live near everything you need and don't have other dependents who's needs may be sudden and disruptive.

We didn't choose to live where we do lightly - it was the only house of this size we could afford (and thus has no garage or side access, another reason bike/motorbike is not ideal to keep on driveway). We also didn't want to move my son to an equidistant school between both parents, so although he can walk from his mum's, he can't from here