Teacher Training Days - and 13 weeks holiday

[MissTillyFlop]

That sounds like a negative to me. Is it?

Depends what you want. For some people when the holidays are is a gigantic bonus. For other people it might be a complete pain in the backside.

When my best friend became a teacher recently one of the big pluses he listed was fixed holidays, so not everyone sees it like that. Although less than a year later he is moaning about them now.

The downside isn't flexibility per se. Teachers have the same problem as parents - holiday companies manufacturing ridiculously over inflated prices.

My partner loves teaching kids. However, he gets to do very little teaching - most of his job appears to be admin,oat of which appears to be of no direct benefit to the pupils. (He has to write a report on each lesson on how he will engage SEN pupils and gifted & talented pupils as well as writing the lesson plan).

There are then he seemingly endless meetings with parents, trips and the fact that the onus is on him if a pupil doesn't get the grades (even though they are a truant who was excluded for most of the final year).

However, he doesn't complain, even when he's got me getting annoyed and shouting "can't you just tell them to **** off?"

 

[subaqua]

Try being a builder, 2 weeks at Christmas, 2 weeks at Easter.

if you live in the past maybe. modern construction doesn't work quite like that anymore

we have a enforced shutdown at Christmas from last working day before christmas to 1st working day back after Jan 1st
some trade bodies like to try and say that the holidays are a wek at easter a week at Christmas and 2 weeks between June and September but that is rapidly dying out. only the dinosaurs who don't want to change for the better keep at that.

the only one that is truly a nightmare to find work over is the christmas one but even our enforced shutdown still has cover come in for pipe flushing etc. If handover is in January then it sometimes means working between so its not as rigidly fixed as teaching.

 

[PK99]

According to the school holiday schedule for 2013 teachers get around 65 days per year, plus in-service days, or whatever you want to call them.
The average full-time worker will work 47 weeks (235 days), a teacher will work 195 days.

So the average teacher would need to work an absolute minimum of 20% more hours than the average full-time work to make up for their additional holidays.

.

Plus, hands up any professional who works only 40 hours a week!

My wife is at her desk 8:30 to 6:30 with maybe 30 minutes for lunch, 5 days a week.

 

[marinyork]

The downside isn't flexibility per se. Teachers have the same problem as parents - holiday companies manufacturing ridiculously over inflated prices.

Hence the phrase it depends what you want. Not everyone does want that (yes, really).

 

[MissTillyFlop]

Plus, hands up any professional who works only 40 hours a week!

My wife is at her desk 8:30 to 6:30 with maybe 30 minutes for lunch, 5 days a week.

Hand up - 10 - 6 with an hour's lunch and I am out of that door at 6 on the dot.

 

[MissTillyFlop]

Hence the phrase it depends what you want. Not everyone does want that (yes, really).

Of course, holidays are a bonus, I just think that they shouldn't be allowed to put up prices to coincide with school holidays, the instances of truancy would go down by an incredible margin overnight.

 

[Archie_tect]

if you live in the past maybe. modern construction doesn't work quite like that anymore

we have a enforced shutdown at Christmas from last working day before christmas to 1st working day back after Jan 1st
some trade bodies like to try and say that the holidays are a wek at easter a week at Christmas and 2 weeks between June and September but that is rapidly dying out. only the dinosaurs who don't want to change for the better keep at that.

the only one that is truly a nightmare to find work over is the christmas one but even our enforced shutdown still has cover come in for pipe flushing etc. If handover is in January then it sometimes means working between so its not as rigidly fixed as teaching.

Sadly it isn't dead sub...

 

[subaqua]

Plus, hands up any professional who works only 40 hours a week!

My wife is at her desk 8:30 to 6:30 with maybe 30 minutes for lunch, 5 days a week.

07.00 to whenever after 17.00 which can often be approching 07.00 the following day. lunch breaks are something i dimly remember.

wifey is in before her official directed hours of 08.30 ( end time is 17.00 when she can leave, keeps the oficial hours below the WTD , convenient hey!!) and several time i have been asked to continue aklong to nursery to collect youngest before 18.00 as she is still in school and can't get away. some evenings i cook just for me as she is eating the lunch she made , took in and didn't get to eat. but its an easy life apparently.

Edited for clarity on working hours and directed hours.

 

[PK99]

and were you paid for the night class teaching? You will be well aware of the facts that most , as not all will,

teachers will be working well past directed hours

with marking, planning, attending governing body/ PTA meetings, school fetes, taking kids on schooltrips over weekends. if you add the actual worked hours up then they are significantly more than your average 40 hr week.
.

In such discussions someone always plays the "directed hours"card. Directed hours (1258.5 per year = 32 hours per week on a 39 hour week = 6.4 hours per working day ) are simply the hours which the head can require the teacher to do specific work. They are explicitly required in their contract of employment required to work additional unspecified hours hours. The relevant number to compare would be the total hours worked in a year.

WRT the other items you mention, only SOME teachers do those things.

The School Teachers’ Pay and Conditions Document (STPCD) 2011 sets out the working time arrangements for teachers. Paragraph 62.4 on page 109 says:

A teacher employed full-time must be available to perform such duties at such times and such places as may be specified by the headteacher ... for 1,258.5 hours, those hours to be allocated reasonably throughout those days in the school year on which the teacher is required to be available for work.​

Paragraph 62.6 says that in addition to the 1,258.5 hours of directed time, a teacher “must work such reasonable additional hours as may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher’s professional duties”, particularly:

• Planning and preparing courses and lessons
• Assessing, monitoring, recording and reporting on the learning needs, progress and achievements of assigned pupils

However, paragraph 62.7 says:

The employer must not determine how many of the additional hours ... must be worked or when these hours must be worked.​

In 2011/12 the number of hours of directed time has been reduced from 1,265 to 1,258.5 to reflect the extra bank holiday for the Queen’s diamond jubilee in 2012. It is expected that there will be 1,265 hours of directed time without the additional bank holiday in 2012-13.

 

[subaqua]

Sadly it isn't dead sub...

in 22 years i have never had them sorts of holidays and thats with some of the big boys of the industry. Balfour Kilpatricks, Emcor ( Drake and Scull as was) , Trafalgar House, Crown House, Rotary,

what companies do that, if you can name any?

 

[vernon]

It's not the teachers that organise things, but it does seem a bit odd that children get a day off for teacher training days. When I was undergoing training someone was found to do my job and the customer was unaffected.

The training days were forced upon school by the then Tory Minister of Education, Kenneth Baker. It is insisted that the whole school has a training day and not individual departments. Re-staffing an entire school to facilitate a full days' meaningful teaching for the entire pupil body is an impossible task. With the current rate of diktats being issued, it wouldn't surprise me if the training days were converted into teaching days.

 

[subaqua]

In such discussions someone always plays the "directed hours"card. Directed hours (1248.5 per year = 32 hours per week on a 39 hour week = 6.4 hours per working day ) are simply the hours which the head can require the teacher to do specific work. They are explicitly required in their contract of employment required to work additional unspecified hours hours. The relevant number to compare would be the total hours worked in a year.

WRT the other items you mention, only SOME teachers do those things.

try not doing more and see how long you last in teaching, and how much support you would get from your Union.

teachers are NOT exempted from working time directive. employers cannot ask you to work more than that set down in the WTD. you can do the maths and then tell me how and why lots of teachers are still doing more.
you also forget that the Education Act specifies maximum times for the children to be there which funnily enough marries up with directed hours.

 

[vernon]

Try being a builder, 2 weeks at Christmas, 2 weeks at Easter.

And all summer because it's too wet to work.....

 

[subaqua]

An all summer because it's too wet to work.....

M&E contractors get boiler house refurbs in the summer and roof Chiller plant replacement in the winter. never get inside work in winter and roof work in the summer.

 

[PK99]

try not doing more and see how long you last in teaching, and how much support you would get from your Union.

.

Not doing more than directed hours would be a breach of contract

Paragraph 62.6 says that in addition to the 1,258.5 hours of directed time, a teacher “must work such reasonable additional hours as may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher’s professional duties”, particularly:

• Planning and preparing courses and lessons
• Assessing, monitoring, recording and reporting on the learning needs, progress and achievements of assigned pupils