Team BKool CycleChat

[bobinski]

On a half hour climb like this, I pretty much disregard pacing myself, I kind of just give it everything for nearly all of the ride. Might just ease up for a second for a drink or a draft, but then charge off again.
That was the highest I've had my HR, and it felt like it too.
It is pure competitive nature that drives me. If I am a minute or so ahead and behind people, I tend to zone out and ease up. But when I see that glimmer of opportunity like I did with Bridgy last night, I will die trying.

I am with you Adds. Too competitive for my own good. If someones a few minutes ahead i will try and drive myself forward to catch them. If the legs and lungs can cope then great. Even worse is i try to hold a little in reserve not just to make the pass but to then dig deep and gain some time on the rider. After all, there is likely to be someone else up ahead anyway. If the course is long and bumpy enough I try and time the pass for a crest or downhill. But I blame Bill and LB and AAAC. They set the bar and made it worth chasing. 18 months ago I wouldn't be able to get near them. It is nice to have progressed and that's a common theme for us all here, progression. Its great.

 

[gbrown]

i thought i beat kapelmuur !! have i been naughty and penalised - didnt mean to - and now i bet my time gets axed to rub salt in the wounds . i really enjoyed that , a steady uphill suits a lot better than downhill

You did, on the road!

However, not everyone starts at exactly the time they should, and some occasionally start really late (often due to technical problems), so to adjust the Handicaps I always calculate the sums of the allocated Start Times and the recorded Moving Times for all finishers. This can then be a few seconds different (either way), just enough to mean a close finish is reversed.

The glory is from winning on the road, it's not your fault if someone starts a few seconds late, but for Handicap calculations the actual Start Time is used.

I use the Moving Time rather than the full time (i.e. excluding warm up and cool down), as some riders start early and sit on the line until their allocated Start Time. This means they can record many seconds or even minutes longer than their moving time, so I go through every finishers session and pick out the Moving Time.

With practice I can see that riders are getting better at hitting their start times and entering pedaling, so hopefully over time the on the road battles will truly reflect the allocated Handicaps.

Geoff

 

[BILL S]

Don't forget with the Bluetooth Wahoo you can use it with a Bluetooth phone as well. I see mine in Alps last year leaving my Garmin 800 at home. Since sold the Garmin as superfluous to needs

Bob, is it the TICKR that you have? Doesn't seem to mention Ant+ in the description.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/wahoo-tickr-heart-rate-monitor-for-iphone-and-android/
Reviews certainly seem good and price not bad.

 

[kipster]

Bob, is it the TICKR that you have? Doesn't seem to mention Ant+ in the description.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/wahoo-tickr-heart-rate-monitor-for-iphone-and-android/
Reviews certainly seem good and price not bad.

Bill, it references Ant+ in the grey box to the right of the main description.
iPhone, Android and GPS Sports watch Connectivity: Both ANT+ and Bluetooth 4.0 capabilities allow the TICKR to connect to both GPS watches, iPhone 4S and later models, and select Android devices with Android 4.3 operating system or newer

 

[gbrown]

Bob, is it the TICKR that you have? Doesn't seem to mention Ant+ in the description.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/wahoo-tickr-heart-rate-monitor-for-iphone-and-android/
Reviews certainly seem good and price not bad.

THE TICKR DIFFERENCE
Equipped with Bluetooth 4.0 and ANT+ dual-band technology, the TICKRs work with both GPS devices and smartphones. Now you only need one heart rate monitor to connect to all of your training devices.

http://uk.wahoofitness.com/devices/hr.html

 

[bobinski]

Bob, is it the TICKR that you have? Doesn't seem to mention Ant+ in the description.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/wahoo-tickr-heart-rate-monitor-for-iphone-and-android/
Reviews certainly seem good and price not bad.

Bill, they do:
http://uk.wahoofitness.com/devices/...8Yfx85zY3MY_kszlp7LAIuPkv3gNigI3kIaAoec8P8HAQ
They just offered my £5 off when i looked at site.

 

[BILL S]

I am with you Adds. Too competitive for my own good. If someones a few minutes ahead i will try and drive myself forward to catch them. If the legs and lungs can cope then great. Even worse is i try to hold a little in reserve not just to make the pass but to then dig deep and gain some time on the rider. After all, there is likely to be someone else up ahead anyway. If the course is long and bumpy enough I try and time the pass for a crest or downhill. But I blame Bill and LB and AAAC. They set the bar and made it worth chasing. 18 months ago I wouldn't be able to get near them. It is nice to have progressed and that's a common theme for us all here, progression. Its great.

Well I'm not sure that I'm progressing but I like that everyone else is. I've been steadily using the bkool now for near enough a year and a half and I seemed to do all my progression in the first 6 months. I must have done 4 or 5 thousand miles and most of that uphill but am finding that I'm at a brick wall as far as progressing is concerned.
Anyway, like Adam and Bob I just can't turn down a race and usually give 100% and beyond. Last night however nothing went quite right and nothing went to plan. In my plan before hand I would be drafting with the 4 others starting at or around the same I was starting, and would quickly overhaul Adam who would attempt to join at the back but would soon be dropped much to his frustration. But when the race started I found myself on my own with no one to draft with and an Adam 1 minute ahead of me who seemed to be going as quick as I could comfortably go. A re-assessment was required so I decided to give it everything in an attempt to catch Adam as quickly as possible and then try to draft him the rest of the session. To my frustration I was only catching him when I was at over 400 watts and I just couldn't keep that up. I got to about 20 seconds away and Bob was still a minute behind at that point. I think this was about half way and before it started to steepen. My heart rate felt like it was at 190 but no HRM (yet) but just couldn't keep going at that effort much as I tried. Forced to back off to 250watts or less for a while Adam pulled away to near enough a minute ahead again and Bob reeled me in. Had quite a good game going with Bob though (thanks Bob I quite enjoyed that). I honestly couldn't keep the power on at that point so could only muster the strength to pass you every so often before needing a rest again. That last pass before the end was about the hardest I've ever tried on the turbo and I had nothing left to race to the line.
All in all I know my strategy was all wrong and when my expected drafting partners didn't show up I should have just gone for a good average power throughout the race and ignored everyone else. I wasn't expecting the performance Adam put in though. Well done for that Adam.

 

[BILL S]

Bill, they do:
http://uk.wahoofitness.com/devices/hr.html?&campaignid=302268498&adgroupid=19631747538&creative=99392697858&keyword=wahoo tickr heart rate monitor&gclid=Cj0KEQiAsP-2BRCFl4Lb2NTJttEBEiQAmj2tbesSRmqmD8Yfx85zY3MY_kszlp7LAIuPkv3gNigI3kIaAoec8P8HAQ
They just offered my £5 off when i looked at site.

Thanks Bob, Geoff and Kip. Just ordered that from Wiggle so hopefully have it up and running for the next handicap.

 

[Add]

Well I'm not sure that I'm progressing but I like that everyone else is. I've been steadily using the bkool now for near enough a year and a half and I seemed to do all my progression in the first 6 months. I must have done 4 or 5 thousand miles and most of that uphill but am finding that I'm at a brick wall as far as progressing is concerned.
Anyway, like Adam and Bob I just can't turn down a race and usually give 100% and beyond. Last night however nothing went quite right and nothing went to plan. In my plan before hand I would be drafting with the 4 others starting at or around the same I was starting, and would quickly overhaul Adam who would attempt to join at the back but would soon be dropped much to his frustration. But when the race started I found myself on my own with no one to draft with and an Adam 1 minute ahead of me who seemed to be going as quick as I could comfortably go. A re-assessment was required so I decided to give it everything in an attempt to catch Adam as quickly as possible and then try to draft him the rest of the session. To my frustration I was only catching him when I was at over 400 watts and I just couldn't keep that up. I got to about 20 seconds away and Bob was still a minute behind at that point. I think this was about half way and before it started to steepen. My heart rate felt like it was at 190 but no HRM (yet) but just couldn't keep going at that effort much as I tried. Forced to back off to 250watts or less for a while Adam pulled away to near enough a minute ahead again and Bob reeled me in. Had quite a good game going with Bob though (thanks Bob I quite enjoyed that). I honestly couldn't keep the power on at that point so could only muster the strength to pass you every so often before needing a rest again. That last pass before the end was about the hardest I've ever tried on the turbo and I had nothing left to race to the line.
All in all I know my strategy was all wrong and when my expected drafting partners didn't show up I should have just gone for a good average power throughout the race and ignored everyone else. I wasn't expecting the performance Adam put in though. Well done for that Adam.

Thankyou Bill, that genuinely made me swell with a little pride.
You always used to be my target, but upon my return I assumed you had advanced too far ahead for it to ever be the same.
Last night gives me hope.
That said, even though I was of similar performance on BKool last year, you clearly demonstrated your dominance in the real world.
I remember discussing before the DD, about staying together, if we could, but if one was feeling stronger, just go do your own race.
On that first 6 mile climb out of Builth, you turned to me and said, "shall we push through to the front and stay with the leaders?"
You obviously took the sweat, snot and tears to be representative of my cruising effort.
I tried my utmost to casually say, no you go for it.
Oh yes, and I fall off!

 

[bobinski]

Well I'm not sure that I'm progressing but I like that everyone else is. I've been steadily using the bkool now for near enough a year and a half and I seemed to do all my progression in the first 6 months. I must have done 4 or 5 thousand miles and most of that uphill but am finding that I'm at a brick wall as far as progressing is concerned.
Anyway, like Adam and Bob I just can't turn down a race and usually give 100% and beyond. Last night however nothing went quite right and nothing went to plan. In my plan before hand I would be drafting with the 4 others starting at or around the same I was starting, and would quickly overhaul Adam who would attempt to join at the back but would soon be dropped much to his frustration. But when the race started I found myself on my own with no one to draft with and an Adam 1 minute ahead of me who seemed to be going as quick as I could comfortably go. A re-assessment was required so I decided to give it everything in an attempt to catch Adam as quickly as possible and then try to draft him the rest of the session. To my frustration I was only catching him when I was at over 400 watts and I just couldn't keep that up. I got to about 20 seconds away and Bob was still a minute behind at that point. I think this was about half way and before it started to steepen. My heart rate felt like it was at 190 but no HRM (yet) but just couldn't keep going at that effort much as I tried. Forced to back off to 250watts or less for a while Adam pulled away to near enough a minute ahead again and Bob reeled me in. Had quite a good game going with Bob though (thanks Bob I quite enjoyed that). I honestly couldn't keep the power on at that point so could only muster the strength to pass you every so often before needing a rest again. That last pass before the end was about the hardest I've ever tried on the turbo and I had nothing left to race to the line.
All in all I know my strategy was all wrong and when my expected drafting partners didn't show up I should have just gone for a good average power throughout the race and ignored everyone else. I wasn't expecting the performance Adam put in though. Well done for that Adam.

Bill, I started late coz i cocked up the password Otherwise my plan was also to draft with you in hope of bridging to Adam. Internet woes including a router reset meant i hadn't warmed up much except for 5 miles in Zwift. I needed to warm up more and drafting would have helped. Pretty annoyed with myself and so bided my time watching you chasing Adam thinking you were both burning bright. But then he seemed to pull away a bit and i thought you were waiting for me so that was when i really gave chase again with visions of us chasing down that pesky Caravan owner, the benefit being i had warmed up now. It really makes a huge difference for me. He got away no doubt with the intention of putting that Caravan slap bang in an area of Outstanding Natural Beauty. The to'ing and fro'ing between you and I was good fun. I should have held back a bit so we could draft each other more but i am a mistrustful type and past experience has suggested you often have enough gas in the tank to pull away when the slope steepens. So I tried to push on. After that I just wanted to get it over and done with. My legs were hurting, my heart pounding, i felt like i could hardly breath, and when i realised i had miss timed the finish I all but collapsed. Momentum kept me going as i looked at the screen anticipating your sudden emergence as you came past. Yep, I think one of if not the hardest turbo rides so far.
I suspect you are not quite running on full power at the moment and it is only a matter of time before you do so, perhaps even thursday! Different people suit different regimes. I used to think the more miles i did the fitter i would get and more power i could generate for longer. There is some truth in that but my knee has meant i only ride by and large every other day so i get to rest even if it is enforced. So for me, at this stage, and on a turbo, rest seems good. I fear it might be different out on the road though...

 

[Goldwolfie]

I think I have recovered sufficiently to comment on last night, mainly to say that I will not be trying like that again for fear it will be the end of me.

At my age my theoretical maximum HR is 152, I averaged 153 with 167 maximum and spent a couple of hours after the ride feeling distincly unwell.

I'm a leisure cyclist and have never done anything competetive on the bike, I fear that last night the old competetive intstincts from my football and athletics days got the better of me. I'll be reining myself back in future.

@kapelmuur - I think we must be about the same age, and like yourself I was a leisure cyclist before I got my turbo in October last, and came across this 'mob'.

I have been taking part in most events since then, and have always felt shattered after each one. I did a comparison of my data on a ride I did when I first started and repeated recently, which I found quite interesting:

Power - Up 30%
Cadence - Up 10%
Time to complete ride - Improved by 21%
Heart Rate - Up 4% to an average figure of 152 which I feel reasonable comfortable with.

I'm still shattered when the finish line eventually arrives, but no worse than when I first started and used to trail in last just about every race.

My point being, I think it would be wise to pull back a bit, but keep going and I'm sure you'll feel the benefits - you can't be too careful at our age.

Let the young 'wipper snappers' fight it out for all the glory, and let us just enjoy the 'ride'.

 

[Roleur1]

Hey - Bill & Bob...thanks for your openness on here today. It gives us all an insight into what is going on physiologically and mentally with the guys at the top. Suffering and cycling are familiar bedfellows - always have and always will. Its the toughest sport in the world. One famous team manager once quoted 'you play soccer but you cant play cycling' - even though I have a long cycling history and consider myself an experienced rider, I remind myself that competitive cycling is never 'played'...its just so true. Just imagine efforts like that that last three hours or more.

I think one of the Lotto Jumbo lads recorded an average wattage of 400 or so during one of the Tof B stages last year and said it was harder than the classics he had ridden that year - so again confirmation that suffering never goes away.

For those of us on here without the benefit of a cycling history and the experience that would give it must be really difficult to understand the level of pain and suffering that the good guys go through. It really is incredible. I rode as an amateur in Belgium and France through the 90's EPO era & it was an education.

My personal experience last night was that it was as hard a half hour as I can remember - just chuck in a roaring crosswind, rain, cold and some Belgian toothpaste (google it!) for the real world experience.

Mark

 

[Monte]

On a half hour climb like this, I pretty much disregard pacing myself, I kind of just give it everything for nearly all of the ride. Might just ease up for a second for a drink or a draft, but then charge off again.
That was the highest I've had my HR, and it felt like it too.
It is pure competitive nature that drives me. If I am a minute or so ahead and behind people, I tend to zone out and ease up. But when I see that glimmer of opportunity like I did with Bridgy last night, I will die trying.

I think I used the wrong tactics last night, I went with a pace/watts that I thought I could hold for the duration, but after watching some of those video clips I agree with the crowd on here, should have just gone for it for as long as I could. Mind you might not of been any quicker overall !

 

[RickB]

Well I'm not sure that I'm progressing but I like that everyone else is. I've been steadily using the bkool now for near enough a year and a half and I seemed to do all my progression in the first 6 months. I must have done 4 or 5 thousand miles and most of that uphill but am finding that I'm at a brick wall as far as progressing is concerned.
Anyway, like Adam and Bob I just can't turn down a race and usually give 100% and beyond. Last night however nothing went quite right and nothing went to plan. In my plan before hand I would be drafting with the 4 others starting at or around the same I was starting, and would quickly overhaul Adam who would attempt to join at the back but would soon be dropped much to his frustration. But when the race started I found myself on my own with no one to draft with and an Adam 1 minute ahead of me who seemed to be going as quick as I could comfortably go. A re-assessment was required so I decided to give it everything in an attempt to catch Adam as quickly as possible and then try to draft him the rest of the session. To my frustration I was only catching him when I was at over 400 watts and I just couldn't keep that up. I got to about 20 seconds away and Bob was still a minute behind at that point. I think this was about half way and before it started to steepen. My heart rate felt like it was at 190 but no HRM (yet) but just couldn't keep going at that effort much as I tried. Forced to back off to 250watts or less for a while Adam pulled away to near enough a minute ahead again and Bob reeled me in. Had quite a good game going with Bob though (thanks Bob I quite enjoyed that). I honestly couldn't keep the power on at that point so could only muster the strength to pass you every so often before needing a rest again. That last pass before the end was about the hardest I've ever tried on the turbo and I had nothing left to race to the line.
All in all I know my strategy was all wrong and when my expected drafting partners didn't show up I should have just gone for a good average power throughout the race and ignored everyone else. I wasn't expecting the performance Adam put in though. Well done for that Adam.

Bill I get the impression that you would destroy us in the real world. As Adam says, you've clearly demonstrated your dominance in the real world in the past.

Bkool doesnt really give a good indicator of real world cycling ability, given the quirks of the system and the way it can be exploited. You're one of the most steady consistent riders on here and I for one wouldnt fancy lining up beside you with a real life mountain in front of me!

 

[bobinski]

Bill I get the impression that you would destroy us in the real world. As Adam says, you've clearly demonstrated your dominance in the real world in the past.

Bkool doesnt really give a good indicator of real world cycling ability, given the quirks of the system and the way it can be exploited. You're one of the most steady consistent riders on here and I for one wouldnt fancy lining up beside you with a real life mountain in front of me!

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