Team BKool CycleChat

[Cjbon]

First problem with Bkool software tonight. Half way up Little Cottonwood Canyon and it booted me and asked if I wanted to save session - was doing ok as well. I'll give it another go tomorrow - any moose's want to join in?

I'll keep a fellow moose company but don't get in till late so can't do ride till about 7.

 

[IrishAl]

As for the noise your unit is emitting, it doesn't sound like the cover rubbing which was a common problem with the earlier units. Your best bet might be to contact bkool and see what they want to do about it. If you bought it direct from bkool they will send a courier to collect it and probably deliver you a new one near enough at the same time.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, that's exactly what happened to my bkool and also another friend of mine (Bridgy) that only used his trainer 4 times... There's certainly a common fault

Thanks for the reply guys. I bought the unit directly off Bkool only a few monhs ago so hopefully they will be sympathetic. Id like to blame the raw power from my legs but we'll not go there.

 

[bridgy]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, that's exactly what happened to my bkool and also another friend of mine (Bridgy) that only used his trainer 4 times... There's certainly a common fault

Yes, and a full week on from when their courier collected it (3 days after it broke), no sign of any replacement and Wiggle still have the status of my exchange as "awaiting returned goods"

Really unimpressed - I hope Bkool themselves are a bit more efficient for you...

 

[RickB]

Yes, and a full week on from when their courier collected it (3 days after it broke), no sign of any replacement and Wiggle still have the status of my exchange as "awaiting returned goods"

Really unimpressed - I hope Bkool themselves are a bit more efficient for you...

Ive had one swapped out with Bkool direct and they were actually very good. New unit arrived and they didn't even take the old one back initially til I reminded them not was still sitting here.

 

[bridgy]

Ive had one swapped out with Bkool direct and they were actually very good. New unit arrived and they didn't even take the old one back initially til I reminded them not was still sitting here.

Alright, no need to rub it in Rick!

 

[gbrown]

I would not say all goats eat salad lol . On saturday i had 2 Kebabs on my dinner brake then came home And put 320 Watt in for the first 30 min of the goat leauge then After it i had 4 bottles of good German Christmas beer with 6.5 pct . And still never manage to get over 63 kg ..

Where's the DISLIKE button when you need it ....

 

[bobinski]

(yet another ad!)

Thursday @ 7pm - EPIC RIDE!!

50km with plenty of flat

Just 600m climbing in total

The hill at the start will break up the field somewhat but there's bound to be some teamwork in the middle of the course at some point!!

Clear your diaries for what will be something completely different to any other Bkool race!!

Pace yourself and I believe all of us can do this one! Do not under any circumstance push hard from the start if you arent used to this sort of distance!


View attachment 110880

I don't think I can join in what looks like a great leveler of a ride. Right knee continues to cause problems and painful to put weight on when walking up stairs. Its kind of ok when i ride, almost as if riding loosens things up but that said i am a bit wary of pushing it too hard. Bloody old age and lingering aches pains and injuries!

 

[gbrown]

On the road it's about strength, power and a good set of lungs, weight only has a smaller part to play, not forgetting bike handling on descents, not one of my strongpoints.

I would say that weight does play a big part, but only on long steep climbs. Just straight power to weight calculations can show how you can go, say, 10%-20% faster by losing excess fat. There is a reason why great climbers are generally scrawny!

Last summer I was fitter than I had been the year before, but had put weight on following time in hospital and found that although I was beating all my strava times on the flat and downhill, I was getting nowhere near on the climbs.

Then last winter I dropped my weight from 82kg to 73kg. Taking into account the weight of the bike and kit, that's about a 10% improvement in power to weight, and it really showed when I got back out onto my favourite 1.3 mile 8% climb.

Only true on long climbs over about 6%, much below that and it is only really power and aerodynamics that count.

The Bkool sim seems to handle weight differences quite accurately on climbs, but on descents I think it is way out.

In reality, on a descent, drag and bike handling (not weight) are likely to determine speed. Weight would be a factor in initial acceleration, but as soon as the speed got up air resistance would be much more important. A heavy person would tend to be larger and therefore have more drag, and to go faster requires exponential increases in force and therefore small differences in mass would make even smaller differences in terminal velocity.

Very quickly riders would reach top speeds mainly determined by how much they can tuck in (and smaller riders would have a benefit here) and how brave they are on the corners (no corners on bkool). The force of gravity on a larger mass would have a much smaller impact than when climbing steeply and slowly.

Cheers,

Geoff

 

[gbrown]

Well, just did a watt comparison with some Garmin Vectors, and the result was somewhat depressing.
Bkool showed about 30 watt more on climbs (was kind of expecting that), but showed the same 30 watt to much on flats (Whaaat the ...).

This is exactly what I saw when comparing my bkool pro with the power readings from my powertap rear wheel. The difference in the power readings varied depending on the power you were putting out, but the bkool was always generous, and at high power figures was very generous (10-20% at least).

When I switched to the KICKR, my power figures fell and it was impossible to hit the same levels on FTP tests, until many weeks later when training had improved my performance.

Even with the KICKR being more accurate, direct comparisons of the power I could average on a 20 minute FTP test (303W was the last one) with what I could maintain on a steep climb on the road (more like 260W for 10 minutes) showed quite a difference.

Some of the difference can be explained by the challenges of the real riding environment, traffic, debris on the road, maintaining your balance, etc. over riding on a bike bolted to a trainer, but a big chunk remains likely to be exaggeration in the bkool simulation, and 30 watts is in the ball park!

They don't have a power meter in the bkool trainer, so it is all guess work. I'm sure they err on the side of flattery, it sells more units!

I would guess that customers are quick to complain if it seems to under state power, and strangely quiet if it over states!

Geoff

 

[gbrown]

So I have been playing around in a solo ride to check what is going on with the speed on downhills. I can confirm that the speed only goes as far as the actual wheel/trainer speed, i.e., there is absolutely not compensation for gravity/freewheeling effect. I understand that you guys riding bkool pro get a "generously compensated" speed in these conditions that is shown in a different color, not the case with my vortex smart trainer. Thus, on downhills I can only go slightly faster than on flats, everything over 40kmh is just exhausting and nearly sprinting.It is a boomer because not only I cannot rest on downhills, but because I am passed by everybody at 60-70kmph. Is there any setting in the software to change this or is this just a bkool trainer feature? Maybe if I unpair the trainer's internal speed sensor? It is a pity because I enjoy Bkool software for the ocasional group rides but this behaviour is very frustrating!

When I realised this was happening with the KICKR trainer I had swapped my bkool for I emailed them several times. Their replies showed no understanding of my view point at all, and implied there was nothing they could do about it. They seemed to think that it was something the KICKR was not doing, that the bkool trainer did.

To me it seems pretty obvious that they add the gravity assist to their simulation and that they could do so for other types of trainer as well. But since they would not accept it as a bug, they stopped responding to my bug reports. Shame, as it ruined the competition in multi-player rides.

As I have said main times since, if multi-player rides in bkool are what you are interested in, you must buy a bkool pro (or classic) trainer, as the support for other trainers is not even close to a level playing field.

Geoff

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

As a tacx vortex user I wouldnt be expecting a great deal of support from bkool.

I expect it to work well and it largely does, with a few website issues that could easily be remedied

 

[Gert Lush]

This is exactly what I saw when comparing my bkool pro with the power readings from my powertap rear wheel.
Even with the KICKR being more accurate, direct comparisons of the power I could output on a 20 minute FTP test (303W was the last one) with what I could maintain on a steep climb on the road (more like 260W for 10 minutes) showed quite a difference.

O.o! If I'm lucky I can hit 200w on the flat. Most of the time it's more like 170w!

 

[gbrown]

O.o! If I'm lucky I can hit 200w on the flat. Most of the time it's more like 170w!

It is harder to maintain power on the flat than on any kind of incline. RIding outside with a power meter is interesting, as it shows average power is much lower than you would imagine from bkool training. Lots of short descents really bring the power figures down, and they only really get up there during long climbs and brief sprints.

I saw a video on youtube of a track cyclists powering a 700W toaster just long enough for it to toast a piece of bread. Just two minutes but he was really struggling at the end, and he was built like Chris Hoy crossed with the Hulk!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4O5voOCqAQ


Geoff

 

[Gert Lush]

It is harder to maintain power on the flat than on any kind of incline. RIding outside with a power meter is interesting, as it shows average power is much lower than you would imagine from bkool training. Lots of short descents really bring the power figures down, and they only really get up there during long climbs and brief sprints.

I saw a video on youtube of a track cyclists powering a 700W toaster just long enough for it to toast a piece of bread. Just two minutes but he was really struggling at the end, and he was built like Chris Hoy crossed with the Hulk!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4O5voOCqAQ


Geoff

His thigh is thicker than both mine put together! I enjoy the fact that it was attempted in the first place! Who thinks of these things! :P

I'm not expecting much better than that tbh, I'm only new and not very strong anywhere.

 

[Neilsmith]

I would say that weight does play a big part, but only on long steep climbs. Just straight power to weight calculations can show how you can go, say, 10%-20% faster by losing excess fat. There is a reason why great climbers are generally scrawny!

Last summer I was fitter than I had been the year before, but had put weight on following time in hospital and found that although I was beating all my strava times on the flat and downhill, I was getting nowhere near on the climbs.

Then last winter I dropped my weight from 82kg to 73kg. Taking into account the weight of the bike and kit, that's about a 10% improvement in power to weight, and it really showed when I got back out onto my favourite 1.3 mile 8% climb.

Only true on long climbs over about 6%, much below that and it is only really power and aerodynamics that count.

The Bkool sim seems to handle weight differences quite accurately on climbs, but on descents I think it is way out.

In reality, on a descent, drag and bike handling (not weight) are likely to determine speed. Weight would be a factor in initial acceleration, but as soon as the speed got up air resistance would be much more important. A heavy person would tend to be larger and therefore have more drag, and to go faster requires exponential increases in force and therefore small differences in mass would make even smaller differences in terminal velocity.

Very quickly riders would reach top speeds mainly determined by how much they can tuck in (and smaller riders would have a benefit here) and how brave they are on the corners (no corners on bkool). The force of gravity on a larger mass would have a much smaller impact than when climbing steeply and slowly.

Cheers,

Geoff

Totally agree with what you say Geoff I'm only 68kg and mountains are usually where I enjoy cycling the most, my mate who is 6" taller than me and around 2 stone heavier than me doesn't find it quite as easy on the big inclines. It's much harder for me on the sprinting side. Where I think Bkool goes way out is most people couldn't handle the bike that well to descend at the speeds it gives you and stay safe.