Team BKool CycleChat

[LBHIFI]

Pretty much - unless someone reruns the finale at record pace. No official announcement until after the weekend

Duh...yes I did miss something: the saturday rerun.

<edit>
Double duh! I see the league goes on to december 2.
</edit>

 

[bobinski]

Thanks all for your replies. I do tend to spin at 80-90 on the road but slower and in a higher gear on the turbo. Recently I have reverted to spinning at a high cadence for speed on the turbo to take the pressure off my dodgy right knee. Its exhausting! That said if you look at the detailed review of the last ride my cadence is actually lower than Bill's and Ricks's I use a cadence sensor rather than relying on bkools built in sensor. But it looks like they are spinning faster and so generating higher watts and yet while Bill is quicker than me Rick isn't
.
p. user trainer time diff. div. att. Km. Km/h watt rpm bpm watt/Kg details challenge
1 LBHIFI

1:05:39,2 0:00:00,0 2 1 47.6 43.5 270.5 96 0 3.51


2 Bill S

1:05:57,0 0:00:17,7 3 1 47.6 43.3 261.63 104 0 3.45


3 Bobinski

1:08:24,9 0:02:45,7 4 1 47.6 41.8 201.43 83 156 2.69


4 RickB

1:10:06,0 0:04:26,7 3 1 47.6 40.8 255.59 104 0 3.04

So, i am still confused. Perhaps I am one of those benefiting from a misfiring/calibrated turbo?!?

 

[LBHIFI]

Thanks all for your replies. I do tend to spin at 80-90 on the road but slower and in a higher gear on the turbo. Recently I have reverted to spinning at a high cadence for speed on the turbo to take the pressure off my dodgy right knee. Its exhausting! That said if you look at the detailed review of the last ride my cadence is actually lower than Bill's and Ricks's I use a cadence sensor rather than relying on bkools built in sensor. But it looks like they are spinning faster and so generating higher watts and yet while Bill is quicker than me Rick isn't
.
So, i am still confused. Perhaps I am one of those benefiting from a misfiring/calibrated turbo?!?

Bill and I were getting the benefit of drafting each other for most of the race. I don't know about Bill, but my cadence only shows half what it should when it gets steeper than 7%, so my avg, rpm is probably a little bit higher than 96.

 

[RickB]

Thanks all for your replies. I do tend to spin at 80-90 on the road but slower and in a higher gear on the turbo. Recently I have reverted to spinning at a high cadence for speed on the turbo to take the pressure off my dodgy right knee. Its exhausting! That said if you look at the detailed review of the last ride my cadence is actually lower than Bill's and Ricks's I use a cadence sensor rather than relying on bkools built in sensor. But it looks like they are spinning faster and so generating higher watts and yet while Bill is quicker than me Rick isn't
.
p. user trainer time diff. div. att. Km. Km/h watt rpm bpm watt/Kg details challenge
1 LBHIFI

1:05:39,2 0:00:00,0 2 1 47.6 43.5 270.5 96 0 3.51


2 Bill S

1:05:57,0 0:00:17,7 3 1 47.6 43.3 261.63 104 0 3.45


3 Bobinski

1:08:24,9 0:02:45,7 4 1 47.6 41.8 201.43 83 156 2.69


4 RickB

1:10:06,0 0:04:26,7 3 1 47.6 40.8 255.59 104 0 3.04

So, i am still confused. Perhaps I am one of those benefiting from a misfiring/calibrated turbo?!?

So what you're saying is I should have whipped your skinny butt?

 

[IrishAl]

And there's still time for a few position changes before the Mountain Goats finishes too

The fight for the minor places is still on then

 

[kipster]

I've also seen that the watts on the ride summary are totally different when you export to Strava. Bkool said I was at about 310 average and Strava said about 290. How can the same file have different values?

Isn't Bkool just looking at the main session, but Strava at the whole ride including any warmup and cool down, hence the lower watts?

 

[GuySJ]

Isn't Bkool just looking at the main session, but Strava at the whole ride including any warmup and cool down, hence the lower watts?

Yes, that would make sense.

 

[bobinski]

So what you're saying is I should have whipped your skinny butt?

That's right Rick. Raise your game mate

 

[gbrown]

Confused over watts per kilo. Looking at the last chain gang race fwiw I came 3rd. Yet my watts output seems much lower than those who posted longer times than me. Is my power output accurate? Or is it a bkool thing and I am being flattered?

watts per kilo is only important on steep climbs!

On flatter sections it is watts and aerodynamic drag, but on Bkool just watts (as I believe drag is same for everyone)

On steep downhills not even watts are that important, you just need to be on a bkool trainer so it simulates freewheeling. Any other trained and you're f******!

Also, any drafting will much the comparisons up (by reducing simulated drag), and as we have discussed in the past, watts can be wasted by pushing at high speeds (and therefore exponential increases in drag) rather than at lower speeds (on steep climbs).

Over a long mixed terrain with some drafting, a comparison of watts and watts per kilo is of very little value.

IMHO

Geoff

 

[Lars_engstrum]

Greeting from wet Shoreham by Sea.
Having more than a little time on my hands due to suspension from work. (Rock on you stiff +++nts) I have been devoting myself to investigating the wide variety of be software available for the smart trainer.
Today quick look at Cyclops. It would appear that your lovely bkool are incompatible due to the non appearance of aforementioned in any of the top times from my experimental puke fest. Vomit number 3 this week over side of boat.
Possibly in the wrong channel for discussion though hopefully doing a quick comparison between the bkool software and Cyclops it will be pertinent?
14 day free trial on the premium at the moment so worth a gander. Presentation is considerably more professional. It would appear in my eyes to be pretty much bkool in a slicker suit and tie? Have ridden one medium uphill video and very impressed. Totally stable on the connection front, hd video and superior interface. The trainer seemed to react in a more realistic way and I loved/hated every minute of it.
Still love bkool though Cyclops is superior for the tacx vortex for sure and would appear to cost similar?
Lots of experimenting to do,
Catch you later.
Lars P. Engstrum

 

[gbrown]

I think at the moment equality island very difficult concept in the expanding world of the smart trainer. At least in the land of bkool. I think it probably does swing either way as far as distinct advantage goes. Seems a shame that the obvious disparity does exist.
In my opinion and admittedly limited experience, one week ownership. Zwift is far more equal between brands and it seems a shame that bkool cannot implement a change within their software to close the gap so to speak.

Lars P Engstrum

That's the same response I got back at the start of the year, they didn't seem to understand the issue at all, or were not making any effort to explain the reasons for the different treatment.

It seems to me that it is not a case of cannot but will not implement a change!

Having spent a lifetime in software design and development, I can see no reason why they need to treat the other smart trainers different to the bkool.

When the gradient turns negative you can slow your pedalling to a crawl and the bkool trainer rider will see speeds turn blue and increase to simulate free wheeling downhill, to quite high speeds on steep descents.

On a KICKR or other smart trainer, when the gradient turns negative this does not happen. If you slow your pedalling to a crawl the speed drops to almost nothing and the simulator shows you riding down the steep decline at just a few miles or kilometres per hour. This is a very poor simulation and a huge disadvantage to riders of those trainers. If you pedal as hard as you can, you still cannot keep up with the simulated free wheeling bkool riders, and any multi-player competition is destroyed.

I can see no reason why they do not use the same algorithm to simulate free wheeling on a KICKR or similar smart trainer that they use on the bkool. It does not seem to have anything to do with the capabilities of the trainer, as the simulated speed is entirely in software and either type of trainer is basically just turning over the roller and adding very little input to the speed calculation.

My guess is that it is just not a priority for them, and the first and second line support people we communicate with probably don't understand the details of the simulation algorithms and coding.

In the meantime, if a level playing field on bkool is important to you, you have no choice but to buy a bkool smart trainer, which may possibly explain why they are in no rush to accept and resolve the problem.

If anyone from bkool can give a clear technical reason why trainers that are resistance controlled and very similar in capability to the bkool pro and classic should be treated so differently I would welcome their explanation...

Geoff

 

[theboxers]

watts per kilo is only important on steep climbs!

On flatter sections it is watts and aerodynamic drag, but on Bkool just watts (as I believe drag is same for everyone)

On steep downhills not even watts are that important, you just need to be on a bkool trainer so it simulates freewheeling. Any other trained and you're f******!

Also, any drafting will much the comparisons up (by reducing simulated drag), and as we have discussed in the past, watts can be wasted by pushing at high speeds (and therefore exponential increases in drag) rather than at lower speeds (on steep climbs).

Over a long mixed terrain with some drafting, a comparison of watts and watts per kilo is of very little value.

IMHO

Geoff

It sort of makes sense. However if I do not push on the downhills my overall time goes up, although the speed indicates I am going as fast as Bkool will let me. Taking it easy, on the downhill, for me, can add 10's of minutes to some of the estimated and actual session times. I think avarage power has a lot to do with the times Bkool generate. I noticed it before the firmware upgrade as well.

Lets just say it's a freaky system that is set up to confuse everyone

 

[Lars_engstrum]

Totally agree with you Geoff.
The discriminatory treatment that I have received ( writing to my mp) is really the reason I am still searching for the one so to speak. The riding was initially amazing though once I got into the multiplayer and went from cycling God on the uphills to Cyril Smith on the downs I didn't want to play anymore.
Obviously bkool want to protect their processes? Though I feel that the obvious perceived unreliability of their trainers (fact or fiction you tell me) and their walled garden approach is going to leave them floundering against Cyclops, zwift and lots of other evolving systems.
In some ways I love the Magnus pike madness inherent to the bkool be, but it's 2015 and this just doesn't quite cut it.
Back to the torture chamber.
One thing.
Covered my floor in oil prints from my cleats in having to dismount go to computer make changes and get back on bike. Wd 40 copy seems to have just done it and my room smells like a workshop.
On guard...
Lars P Engstrum.

 

[GuySJ]

It sort of makes sense. However if I do not push on the downhills my overall time goes up, although the speed indicates I am going as fast as Bkool will let me. Taking it easy, on the downhill, for me, can add 10's of minutes to some of the estimated and actual session times. I think avarage power has a lot to do with the times Bkool generate. I noticed it before the firmware upgrade as well.

Lets just say it's a freaky system that is set up to confuse everyone

The overall time seems to be calculated not from your speed but from what it has decided your power is. Bizarre as this seems. That is exactly how I noticed this. You are going along at 20 MPH and hit a small hill, feed in more power to keep your speed the same and your over all time goes down in chunks, then crest the hill and back off still keeping your speed at 20 and minutes are added back to the overall time. So time to the end has no relation to how fast you are going but to how hard you are trying!

 

[RickB]

Chaingang rerun at 5pm

5pm warm up start with race beginning 5:10.

Course is named: Challenge Paguera-Mallorca
If you don't see it search for rick in the advanced search function at bottom of page.