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JLaw

Veteran
Final Results from the Mountain Moose League #1:


1 1 John18 3:27:55,2 0:00:00,0
2 2 Noah 3:32:35,9 0:04:40,7
3 3 Monte 3:34:03,8 0:06:08,5
4 4 Insomina 3:42:55,1 0:14:59,8
5 5 Kev 3:45:52,8 0:17:57,5
6 6 Whorty 3:46:37,1 0:18:41,8
7 7 Soarerv8 3:51:20,4 0:23:25,2
8 8 Spodnie 4:29:17,5 1:01:22,2
9 9 Goldwolfie 4:35:36,4 1:07:41,1
10 10 JLaw 4:35:39,3 1:07:44,1
11 11 C j bon 4:41:40,6 1:13:45,4
12 12 Rob 4:42:04,4 1:14:09,1
13 13 GailB 4:51:31,7 1:23:36,4
14 14 Paul F 4:58:16,2 1:30:20,9
15 15 Kris 5:01:15,7 1:33:20,5
16 16 TheBoxers 5:03:53,6 1:35:58,4
17 17 Baigu 5:07:10,6 1:39:15,3
18 18 Smithy 5:08:43,3 1:40:48,1


I don't think anyone was able to ride Marie Blanque.

Thanks everyone who rode. Hopefully we won't have as many glitches the 2nd time around.
 

BILL S

Guru
Location
London
PS - Had a chance to review our stats.
You mention my 'big watts' but considering we are both probably registered at 77kg it is supprising to see such a big difference in our average watts today with mine at W/Kg 4.53 and yours at 3.71.
Perhaps that is something else we could grumble about but at the end of the day the only average figure that matters is 'speed'.

Your explanation makes perfect sense but leaves me kicking myself because perhaps if I had known, the psychological boost I would have got might have helped me to be a minute further up the road. Perhaps the lesson there is to study my wall a bit better before the start of the chaingang ride in future.
I also note your big watts and wonder how and why you are not even faster than you are? But worth considering is that we don't actually know how accurate the wattage readouts are. Myself and LB both replaced our units under warranty because we couldn't get the latest firmware updates on our units. The ones we had actually behaved very much like your classic. The main point being that we both complained about lower wattage readout with the new units. As far as I know my speed up Dhuez is about 4 mins slower than with my old unit. It also cost us a few levels of fitness because of course the power readout was less. I went from pro1 to active 9 and LB's drop was even more pronounced.
One thing I am curious about: Are the speed and power calculated separately or are they a function of one another?

Possibility 1/ LB actually made more power that you today (real watts, not bkool watts). The real power output is driving the speed rather than the wildly innacurate power readout that exists between different units and models.
Possibility 2/ You made a lot more power than LB today but the pro unit has such different/advantageous characteristics that the extra power you make is still not a match for it.

It really is too late to be analysing this and I think I'm confusing myself. :huh:

Can't help thinking you'd be quicker on a pro though. Maybe you could take one on a 1 month free trial to find out ^_^
 

LBHIFI

Veteran
Location
Liseleje
PS - Had a chance to review our stats.
You mention my 'big watts' but considering we are both probably registered at 77kg it is supprising to see such a big difference in our average watts today with mine at W/Kg 4.53 and yours at 3.71.
Perhaps that is something else we could grumble about but at the end of the day the only average figure that matters is 'speed'.
I have adopted a riding style which gives me a lot of blue numbers (sprinting, resting, sprinting, resting...), but this difference is too big to explained by just differences in riding styles.
I know for a fact that my Bkool Pro displays about 30 watt too much, but the real abnormali is the speed/watt relation. Speed is way to high, but this looks like to be a general Bkool thing.

Could be real interesting to have someone with a power meter measure the Bkool Classic watt difference. Based on a few rides by Pep Tatche (a Bkool Classic owner) I'm guessing the Classic also displays to much power. If not, then Pep must be Pantani reincarnated, because he is one of the few that also reached 6.5 watt/kg on a longer climb session.
 

Insomina

Paul in Real Life
Location
Northampton
Final Results from the Mountain Moose League #1:


1 1 John18 3:27:55,2 0:00:00,0
2 2 Noah 3:32:35,9 0:04:40,7
3 3 Monte 3:34:03,8 0:06:08,5
4 4 Insomina 3:42:55,1 0:14:59,8
5 5 Kev 3:45:52,8 0:17:57,5
6 6 Whorty 3:46:37,1 0:18:41,8
7 7 Soarerv8 3:51:20,4 0:23:25,2
8 8 Spodnie 4:29:17,5 1:01:22,2
9 9 Goldwolfie 4:35:36,4 1:07:41,1
10 10 JLaw 4:35:39,3 1:07:44,1
11 11 C j bon 4:41:40,6 1:13:45,4
12 12 Rob 4:42:04,4 1:14:09,1
13 13 GailB 4:51:31,7 1:23:36,4
14 14 Paul F 4:58:16,2 1:30:20,9
15 15 Kris 5:01:15,7 1:33:20,5
16 16 TheBoxers 5:03:53,6 1:35:58,4
17 17 Baigu 5:07:10,6 1:39:15,3
18 18 Smithy 5:08:43,3 1:40:48,1


I don't think anyone was able to ride Marie Blanque.

Thanks everyone who rode. Hopefully we won't have as many glitches the 2nd time around.
Thanks for arranging this, especially having to approve the rides I always got wrong.

When the next one starting - not that I really want it too of course.
 

Monte

Über Member
Location
Somerset
Your explanation makes perfect sense but leaves me kicking myself because perhaps if I had known, the psychological boost I would have got might have helped me to be a minute further up the road. Perhaps the lesson there is to study my wall a bit better before the start of the chaingang ride in future.
I also note your big watts and wonder how and why you are not even faster than you are? But worth considering is that we don't actually know how accurate the wattage readouts are. Myself and LB both replaced our units under warranty because we couldn't get the latest firmware updates on our units. The ones we had actually behaved very much like your classic. The main point being that we both complained about lower wattage readout with the new units. As far as I know my speed up Dhuez is about 4 mins slower than with my old unit. It also cost us a few levels of fitness because of course the power readout was less. I went from pro1 to active 9 and LB's drop was even more pronounced.
One thing I am curious about: Are the speed and power calculated separately or are they a function of one another?

Possibility 1/ LB actually made more power that you today (real watts, not bkool watts). The real power output is driving the speed rather than the wildly innacurate power readout that exists between different units and models.
Possibility 2/ You made a lot more power than LB today but the pro unit has such different/advantageous characteristics that the extra power you make is still not a match for it.

It really is too late to be analysing this and I think I'm confusing myself. :huh:

Can't help thinking you'd be quicker on a pro though. Maybe you could take one on a 1 month free trial to find out ^_^

My replacement trainer is certainly a lot harder than my original bkool pro, I'm about 6 minutes slower up Alpe d'Heuz and I'm struggling to get to active status (red)... It's also harder on zwift software as I have ridden online with people than I have actually ridden with in real and I struggled to keep up and eventually got dropped and in the real world it would of been the other way round.

I view the indoor training as a bloody good workout which you would never work so hard in the winter on the road bike, however the competitive nature is always going to be there we wouldn't be a chain gang member otherwise, lol.
 

Rob_H

Active Member
[QUOTE="bobinski, post:]But, and it's a big but, for the time being at least it doesn't offer bkools variety or options.[/QUOTE] True, although Ive started using the custom workouts on zwift and they are very good, I also took part in one of the ztr races, there is a pretty good community around them with people publishing results for each race and even some with video analysis on youtube :smile:
 

bobinski

Legendary Member
Location
Tulse Hill
My replacement trainer is certainly a lot harder than my original bkool pro, I'm about 6 minutes slower up Alpe d'Heuz and I'm struggling to get to active status (red)... It's also harder on zwift software as I have ridden online with people than I have actually ridden with in real and I struggled to keep up and eventually got dropped and in the real world it would of been the other way round.

Hey Monte,
On zwift do you all have the realism or whatever it is setting at 100%? The default is I think 50% which I find strange. I was faster than local riders who are always faster than me over our local routes until I dialed in 100%. Perhaps there is some discrepancy in you and your friends settings?
 

Goldwolfie

Veteran
Location
Chesterfield
Gail has just requested if someone could go a bit slower on stage 2 so that she doesn't come last again. :smile:

My effort last night wasn't too far ahead of Gail's time. Rick I'm afraid you might have to take some responsibility here, as you're words of encouragement (and theboxers) may have made all the difference as I was really suffering at the time, and they kept me going. :thanks:

I find them rolling rides a bit hard going - too many gear changes too much to think about with all the ups and downs for a simpleton like me. I 'll have to get a fixie ^_^.
 

bridgy

Legendary Member
Location
Cheddar
I have adopted a riding style which gives me a lot of blue numbers (sprinting, resting, sprinting, resting...), but this difference is too big to explained by just differences in riding styles.
I know for a fact that my Bkool Pro displays about 30 watt too much, but the real abnormali is the speed/watt relation. Speed is way to high, but this looks like to be a general Bkool thing.

Could be real interesting to have someone with a power meter measure the Bkool Classic watt difference. Based on a few rides by Pep Tatche (a Bkool Classic owner) I'm guessing the Classic also displays to much power. If not, then Pep must be Pantani reincarnated, because he is one of the few that also reached 6.5 watt/kg on a longer climb session.

Interesting - you mention a sprint/rest style of riding and your average watts show as circa 60 watts less than AAAC despite you going a bit faster. The same anomaly shows with Rob's figures - if anything even more pronounced - where his average watts show as circa 100 watts lower than mine despite a virtually identical time, but Rob mentioned earlier that he too adopts a sprint/rest style.

So it looks like this confuses the software somewhat and the average figure comes out unrealistically low? I'm no expert but for similar weight riders over the same course (particularly one like this with no extreme/long ups or down) whatever style of riding you adopt, if you finish with similar times in reality your average watts should be similar shouldn't they?

(Only other factors could be one rider drafting more than the other or one rider "freewheeling" more on the steeper downhills but I don't think either of these apply to yesterday's ride?)
 

LBHIFI

Veteran
Location
Liseleje
I'm no expert but for similar weight riders over the same course (particularly one like this with no extreme/long ups or down) whatever style of riding you adopt, if you finish with similar times in reality your average watts should be similar shouldn't they?
Actually no. I think it was Geoff who pointed out that in real life, on a flat section, keeping a constant max watt is the most efficient, due to the way air resistance works against you (squared). So, e.g. 1 hour at 250 watt should be more efficient than 30 min 200 watt + 30 min 300 watt.
 
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