Team BKool CycleChat

[AAAC 76C]

I didn't see any detailed explanation - was in a bit of a rush so just clicked "yes" and it did it's thing. It was a firmware update rather than a software update - I assume there's a difference?

My observations - seemed faster /easier on the flat - particularly in the velodrome when warming up (less noticeable on the race). In the velodrome the speed went blue without any real effort and just stayed blue!

Speed went blue and stayed blue on the steeper climbs BUT this seemed to mean nothing - as soon as I reduced my efforts at all, the speed dropped instantly despite being blue.

Previously, if I powered hard into a climb I could back off and the speed would go blue on the ascent and reduce slowly ( slingshot?). This no longer works at all - as soon as I backed off on any incline my speed dropped like a stone instantly - much more realistically too!

Bill won't want to loose his sling shot!

Really don't get the blues on the boards,why mess with the resistance on the flat where weight literally has no impact other than its relationship to muscle bulk and therefore strength = the capability to create power (google 'Forstemann toaster')

PS: I can power into a climb, back off and the speed goes up!

 

[Whorty]

Well that was interesting. I re-rode stage 4 today and was 6 minutes slower despite burning on average 17 more watts and 100 more calories. I did the firmware update and it destroys speed on the hills. Where on Friday I was averaging 9.5 kph on the climb, tonight I was 7 kph. I was 2 mins up on GW's ghost at the start of the climb, and he had gone past me 1km later. My own ghost was in the ride. When it caught me up I tried to keep up with it; I needed to stay at 350 watts to stay in touch, and I know on Wednesday I would have been pushing only 210.

It's probably more realistic, but it's a shame they have to make such a drastic change as it makes it difficult to really compare yourself across rides. I was stringer today, put out more power, yet was nearly 10% slower

For those who haven't done the update yet ... be warned! The next time you ride a hill, it's going to hurt like hell

 

[Whorty]

I didn't see any detailed explanation - was in a bit of a rush so just clicked "yes" and it did it's thing. It was a firmware update rather than a software update - I assume there's a difference?

My observations - seemed faster /easier on the flat - particularly in the velodrome when warming up (less noticeable on the race). In the velodrome the speed went blue without any real effort and just stayed blue!

Speed went blue and stayed blue on the steeper climbs BUT this seemed to mean nothing - as soon as I reduced my efforts at all, the speed dropped instantly despite being blue.

Previously, if I powered hard into a climb I could back off and the speed would go blue on the ascent and reduce slowly ( slingshot?). This no longer works at all - as soon as I backed off on any incline my speed dropped like a stone instantly - much more realistically too!

I saw the same tonight. i also noticed on the slight declines (say -0.5% to -1.5%) it was easier to keep the speeds up. This is probably why I could keep ahead of GW's ghost on the flatter part of the ride which is not normal as GW is stronger than me on the flats. And on the hill I was nearly 2kph lower (7.5 compared to 9.5)

 

[bridgy]

Bill won't want to loose his sling shot!

Really don't get the blues on the boards,why mess with the resistance on the flat where weight literally has no impact other than its relationship to muscle bulk and therefore strength = the capability to create power (google 'Forstemann toaster')

PS: I can power into a climb, back off and the speed goes up!

Couldn't agree more about blues in the velodrome. Weird thing is though that the blue numbers didn't seem to actually do anything because like with the hills, as soon as you back off the speed drops - different to when it went blue before.

I used to have the same on uphills - an initial drop in speed when you back off and then it would go up (in blue) and reduce slowly despite going uphill. Doesn't do this now.

I think this is an improvement but would like us all to be on a level playing field obviously!!

 

[bobinski]

Well that was interesting. I re-rode stage 4 today and was 6 minutes slower despite burning on average 17 more watts and 100 more calories. I did the firmware update and it destroys speed on the hills. Where on Friday I was averaging 9.5 kph on the climb, tonight I was 7 kph. I was 2 mins up on GW's ghost at the start of the climb, and he had gone past me 1km later. My own ghost was in the ride. When it caught me up I tried to keep up with it; I needed to stay at 350 watts to stay in touch, and I know on Wednesday I would have been pushing only 210.

It's probably more realistic, but it's a shame they have to make such a drastic change as it makes it difficult to really compare yourself across rides. I was stringer today, put out more power, yet was nearly 10% slower

For those who haven't done the update yet ... be warned! The next time you ride a hill, it's going to hurt like hell

I wasn't sure about this when I rode post update but I think you are right. I use the manual detect so I can interchange between zwift and bkool. I can ride faster uphill in zwift than I can in bkool especially post update. I am 2-4km slower. I have no idea what is more accurate.inwill try and test over the weekend. I really wish bkool had an auto calibrate routine.

 

[AAAC 76C]

I wasn't sure about this when I rode post update but I think you are right. I use the manual detect so I can interchange between zwift and bkool. I can ride faster uphill in zwift than I can in bkool especially post update. I am 2-4km slower. I have no idea what is more accurate.inwill try and test over the weekend. I really wish bkool had an auto calibrate routine.

Auto calibrate? is there one in Zwift, What happens during auto calibrate?

 

[bobinski]

Auto calibrate? is there one in Zwift, What happens during auto calibrate?

Sorry, no there isn't. But wahoo and tacx smart trainers for example all have an auto calibrate designed to ensure there is some consistency in power readings. Bkool is, I think almost alone amongst smart turbo trainers in not having this facility. You can only get Bkool to dial in and recalibrate.

 

[BILL S]

Bill won't want to loose his sling shot!

Really don't get the blues on the boards,why mess with the resistance on the flat where weight literally has no impact other than its relationship to muscle bulk and therefore strength = the capability to create power (google 'Forstemann toaster')

PS: I can power into a climb, back off and the speed goes up!

I don't mind losing the slingshot as I'd prefer a realistic and even playing field. I'd be happy if the only variable would be tyre type and pressure, which will always make far more difference on the turbo than the real world.
I had hoped to do the update today but no sign of it. I wonder if bkool have cancelled it because they are unhappy with the changes they made.

 

[bridgy]

What Whorty says about hill speed may explain why you were saying you caught me so easily on the hill AAAC (although knowing you, you'd have done that anyway!) - obviously that was my first go on that course so I have nothing to compare against - although my watts did seem high

 

[BILL S]

What Whorty says about hill speed may explain why you were saying you caught me so easily on the hill AAAC (although knowing you, you'd have done that anyway!) - obviously that was my first go on that course so I have nothing to compare against - although my watts did seem high

They looked bloody high when I was watching. I was most impressed, and concluded that I'd have no chance keeping up if I challenged your ghost.

 

[AAAC 76C]

Sorry, no there isn't. But wahoo and tacx smart trainers for example all have an auto calibrate designed to ensure there is some consistency in power readings. Bkool is, I think almost alone amongst smart turbo trainers in not having this facility. You can only get Bkool to dial in and recalibrate.

They work a little differently as one as a motor/brake for descending and generating resistance (Tacx) and the other measures toque and hence power using strain gauges.
The way a BKool works there is nothing to calibrate it against.
About the only calibration you could do, I assume, is a rundown calibration which would give the Trainer an idea of internal friction losses but as you don't clamp the wheel on a BKool that may also be a little difficult and it would probably increase the price of the product due to increased complexity.
I'm not even sure what they calibrate when you phone in. They can probably calibrate the null position but I'm not sure what else they can do as I assume you would need to have a know value to carry out any real calibration.

 

[bridgy]

Changing the subject from firmware and algorithms to real life fitness results (which is the real point right?!), I had a go at the Cheddar Gorge climb for the first time in good conditions this year tonight. It's a climb I've done many, many times and in the past if I have beaten my previous best time it's been by a second or two. Tonight I beat my previous best by 27 seconds - thanks to Bkool fitness and a resulting bit of weight loss so I am happy with that, whatever the software issues!

 

[Whorty]

I don't mind losing the slingshot as I'd prefer a realistic and even playing field. I'd be happy if the only variable would be tyre type and pressure, which will always make far more difference on the turbo than the real world.
I had hoped to do the update today but no sign of it. I wonder if bkool have cancelled it because they are unhappy with the changes they made.

Blinkin hope not .... I want everyone to suffer like I suffered tonight

 

[CXRAndy]

Is it safe to use my Kickr now? Where is jlaw for a review of the latest s

Does this mean Thursday league results are a little skewed, as some had upgraded firmware before the session?

Getting excuse in early, poor couple of days with hay fever/thunder Asthma!

 

[Goldwolfie]

Well that was interesting. I re-rode stage 4 today and was 6 minutes slower despite burning on average 17 more watts and 100 more calories. I did the firmware update and it destroys speed on the hills. Where on Friday I was averaging 9.5 kph on the climb, tonight I was 7 kph. I was 2 mins up on GW's ghost at the start of the climb, and he had gone past me 1km later. My own ghost was in the ride. When it caught me up I tried to keep up with it; I needed to stay at 350 watts to stay in touch, and I know on Wednesday I would have been pushing only 210.

It's probably more realistic, but it's a shame they have to make such a drastic change as it makes it difficult to really compare yourself across rides. I was stringer today, put out more power, yet was nearly 10% slower

For those who haven't done the update yet ... be warned! The next time you ride a hill, it's going to hurt like hell

I hadn't upgraded my firmware before Thursday night's league ride, and I had to put in 104% of effort on that one to get that time.

I have since upgraded, so it will be interesting to see how I get on the next time I try a decent climb - but it might not be tonight's re-run - as once was probably enough on that one for me.