Cycleops
Legendary Member
- Location
- Accra, Ghana
Pure greed on both sides. The battle of the bad v the baddest or Predator v Godzilla.
I'd bet on them reaching an "accomodation".
I'd bet on them reaching an "accomodation".
The Amazon & Visa fallout
- Thread starter Leedsbusdriver
- Start date
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mistyoptic
Vintage
- Location
- A parallel reality
classic33
Leg End Member
You're just being cynical about this.
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
Only Visa Debit at home, but it's affected all the Works 'company cards' - a right royal mess as we will have to move cards.
bonzobanana
Guru
I thought Amazon took American Express which used to have by far the highest fees so presumably they have a special arrangement with Amazon and Amazon are looking to achieve the same here. If such a arrangement happens then hopefully other retailers might also end up with getting the same rates. Banks always seem to push for the highest charges they can get away with it seems, until they are forced to lower them either by commercial pressure or government policy.
While this may be directly related to Brexit I really think these are minor issues in the scheme of things. Ultimately the UK needs to return to a trading surplus and start paying off the £1.8 trillion of debt we built up while being part of the EU. The huge transfer of billions to the EU over the years and being in a captive market which protected itself using tariffs on products outside the EU for industries we mostly didn't have meant huge costs to the UK. We have about £75k of debt for every single working person in the UK and this will take decades to pay back and realistically we have to be outside the EU to do that. In was never realistic to continue in the EU long term and we should have left much sooner. As it is our children, grand children and great grand children will be paying off the debts we have left the EU with. In the scheme of things this is a completely trivial matter that is directly related to Brexit. All my credit cards are mastercard anyway and my debit card is Visa debit which doesn't seem to be effected anyway. It certainly is a complete non-issue for me. You only have to look at the NIIP rating of the UK to see how much damage has been done to our economy and you can see very similar damage to France and Spain and we will see over the coming years how we compare to them from the point of leaving, I would imagine initially it should be worse for us as we find our feet outside the EU but then should really start improving for us without the huge financial burden of the EU and the ability to make independent decisions. We can't just keep borrowing forever to pay for EU membership and higher cost EU products resulting in a huge trade deficit with the EU.
While this may be directly related to Brexit I really think these are minor issues in the scheme of things. Ultimately the UK needs to return to a trading surplus and start paying off the £1.8 trillion of debt we built up while being part of the EU. The huge transfer of billions to the EU over the years and being in a captive market which protected itself using tariffs on products outside the EU for industries we mostly didn't have meant huge costs to the UK. We have about £75k of debt for every single working person in the UK and this will take decades to pay back and realistically we have to be outside the EU to do that. In was never realistic to continue in the EU long term and we should have left much sooner. As it is our children, grand children and great grand children will be paying off the debts we have left the EU with. In the scheme of things this is a completely trivial matter that is directly related to Brexit. All my credit cards are mastercard anyway and my debit card is Visa debit which doesn't seem to be effected anyway. It certainly is a complete non-issue for me. You only have to look at the NIIP rating of the UK to see how much damage has been done to our economy and you can see very similar damage to France and Spain and we will see over the coming years how we compare to them from the point of leaving, I would imagine initially it should be worse for us as we find our feet outside the EU but then should really start improving for us without the huge financial burden of the EU and the ability to make independent decisions. We can't just keep borrowing forever to pay for EU membership and higher cost EU products resulting in a huge trade deficit with the EU.
welsh dragon
Thanks but no thanks. I think I'll pass.
I dont pay using my credit card. Always used my debit card.
As usual, a storm In a teacup.
As usual, a storm In a teacup.
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
It's not an issue for most of us, but our business card is VISA - we spend a fortune via Amazon for stuff as the usual 'raise a purchase order' route can be too slow to buy a bunch of £10 Amazon vouchers for trial/study volunteers..
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Alex321
Veteran
- Location
- South Wales
I doubt it. I certainly wouldn't consider switching my credit card just for that one retailer that I use maybe half a dozen times a year.
Many people were already dubious about using Amazon due to their tax avoidance, and for those people if they have Visa cards, this could be the final kick to stop them buying there.
This is totally a "cut off your nose to spite your face" move from Amazon. Particularly since they are simply lying when they claim it is all because of the higher fees, given that Mastercard raised their fees to the same level first.
slowmotion
Quite dreadful
- Location
- lost somewhere
In that case, The Grauniad is probably reporting 15%.
a.twiddler
Veteran
It might be a red herring, as I don't use credit cards, but my bank has been changing Debit cards from Visa to Mastercard as they reach their expiry date.
slowmotion
Quite dreadful
- Location
- lost somewhere
FirstDirect did the same with mine.
The whole Amazon scare really is a classic First World Problem. You'll all sort it out for yourselves, Amazon will continue to make lots of money, as will Mastercard and Visa. You won't end up in a debtors prison. Relax.
My HSBC cards (Debit & Credit) are both Visa, but my John Lewis and M&S cards are both Mastercards, so whatever happens I can carry on shopping.
I've tend to use the HSBC cards most of the time, but the other two (JL and M&S) both give cash back (vouchers), so I should use them more anyway.
I've tend to use the HSBC cards most of the time, but the other two (JL and M&S) both give cash back (vouchers), so I should use them more anyway.
I've never used debit cards for online purchases. While there is now some consumer protection for debit card purchases, credit card use still has more robust measures in place, imho.
I have no non-Visa credit cards so would need to get one, which would be credit card number four and be a pain to manage compared to the single bank login, for the one card I usually use, to switch money between current and credit accounts.
Unless the companies sort this out, I'll probably shut down my Prime account, load the main one with some gift vouchers to pay for Kindle books and switch purchasing to other retailers. Shame as I've been an Amazon customer since 1999 but it is still preferable to carry on contributing to Mr Bezos's massive tax-avoiding profits funding his knob-shaped spacecraft and him using customers as bargaining pawns in trade disputes.
Very much a first world problem, of course, but irritating nonetheless.
I have no non-Visa credit cards so would need to get one, which would be credit card number four and be a pain to manage compared to the single bank login, for the one card I usually use, to switch money between current and credit accounts.
Unless the companies sort this out, I'll probably shut down my Prime account, load the main one with some gift vouchers to pay for Kindle books and switch purchasing to other retailers. Shame as I've been an Amazon customer since 1999 but it is still preferable to carry on contributing to Mr Bezos's massive tax-avoiding profits funding his knob-shaped spacecraft and him using customers as bargaining pawns in trade disputes.
Very much a first world problem, of course, but irritating nonetheless.
IanSmithCSE
Guru
- Location
- Worcester, Worcestershire
Good morning,
I too struggle to believe that this is about transaction fees, even you and I can go online and get card processing at less than 2%. So I wonder if this is a part of a plan to try and reduce the use of credit cards because of chargebacks/Sec. 75 refunds.
My thinking is that either type of refund generally doesn't affect the card issuer (your bank) so the card issuer only loses if the merchant goes bust and unless I am misunderstanding something most of the time if I buy off Amazon that merchant is Amazon, it's Amazon's way of ensuring that they get their commission from third party sellers.
This makes me wonder if Amazon is being bitten by signing up sellers who are causing too many chargebacks /Sec. 75 refunds. The credit card providers are well aware of their obligations under Sec. 75 CCA etc so they may have a policy of Okay refund as we have to. With debit cards which are only covered by the voluntary agreement there may be more of a reluctance by the card issuer to raise a chargeback as they don't have to and recalling payments does cost the bank a lot of time if it is disputed.
If these third party sellers are actually shipping the product, but are shipping substandard goods that are resulting in claims after a few months it may be Amazon that is having to cover the costs of the chargebacks as the supplier has stopped using the Amazon platform and can't be found.
By creating an "issue" with Visa Credit Cards you can get half of your customer base to switch to debit cards with a possible reduction in chargebacks. It is also interesting that the announcement appears to refer to UK issued Visa cards, ones that are covered by the CCA.
Bye
Ian
I too struggle to believe that this is about transaction fees, even you and I can go online and get card processing at less than 2%. So I wonder if this is a part of a plan to try and reduce the use of credit cards because of chargebacks/Sec. 75 refunds.
My thinking is that either type of refund generally doesn't affect the card issuer (your bank) so the card issuer only loses if the merchant goes bust and unless I am misunderstanding something most of the time if I buy off Amazon that merchant is Amazon, it's Amazon's way of ensuring that they get their commission from third party sellers.
This makes me wonder if Amazon is being bitten by signing up sellers who are causing too many chargebacks /Sec. 75 refunds. The credit card providers are well aware of their obligations under Sec. 75 CCA etc so they may have a policy of Okay refund as we have to. With debit cards which are only covered by the voluntary agreement there may be more of a reluctance by the card issuer to raise a chargeback as they don't have to and recalling payments does cost the bank a lot of time if it is disputed.
If these third party sellers are actually shipping the product, but are shipping substandard goods that are resulting in claims after a few months it may be Amazon that is having to cover the costs of the chargebacks as the supplier has stopped using the Amazon platform and can't be found.
By creating an "issue" with Visa Credit Cards you can get half of your customer base to switch to debit cards with a possible reduction in chargebacks. It is also interesting that the announcement appears to refer to UK issued Visa cards, ones that are covered by the CCA.
Bye
Ian
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