The cagers come out!

[col]

But what about the wind!!!

I know the video shows me riding in pretty much straight lines, but the crosswind meant business, would come out of nowhere and blow me a good foot sideways in either direction - cycling in the cycle lane could have easily seen my wheels touch the curb, followed in short order no doubt by my body.

point taken

 

[Norv]

Stop calling people in cars, "cagers". It sounds really daft.

 

[Jacomus-rides-Gen]

Makes sense to me - they sit in a big metal cage.

 

[Terminator]

Stop calling people in cars, "cagers". It sounds really daft.

It's a normal cycling term.

 

[Terminator]

This bit makes me think you're just not very familiar with Cyclecraft, or have simply misinterpreted the book. I've posted topics a couple of times, and no-one has managed to come up with *ANY* situation where Cyclecraft is wrong. Most of the time when I see anti-cyclecraft comments, it's a "Don't tell me how to cycle, I'm VERY experienced and my ego won't take it" kind of thing.

Crap.Cyclecraft wasn't around when I started commuting to work.

My cycling position wasn't criticised in the mid 70's when I was on all those club runs otherwise my cycling would be different today.

I have already changed the way I cycle once on advice on this board and found I had an accident on a mini rounderbout very soon after so it's not about ego.

Just because people cycle the way that you don't approve and doesn't match up to the way you think it should be done well im sorry but im not happy with changing the way I have ridden for the last 30+ years .Im not doing anything illegal *unless* I was cycling dangerously of which im sure I am not.I tend to cycle defensively and even more defensively against unpredictable pedestrians now.

BentMikey this is not a rant.Just trying to get my point across.

 

[Tetedelacourse]

I've never read Cyclecraft and I don't feel a need to. I do think sometimes on here it's treated as a must-read when really it's not if you cycle confidently, assertively and with awareness.

I usually when someone posts that they're considering taking up cycle commuting, any advice and then someone else says "read Cyclecraft". But then I forget that not everyone has as much common sense as me

It's harmless and it may be right in what it says, but it's not essential.

Where's Cab these days?

 

[trustysteed]

I've never read Cyclecraft and I don't feel a need to.

it's treated as a must-read when really it's not

I usually .........someone else says "read Cyclecraft

it's not essential.

my thoughts exactly.

 

[trustysteed]

It's a normal cycling term.

only for cyclists who are militant car-haters. luckily there's not that many militant 'non-cagers' compared to us normal cyclists who accept other vehicles on the roads.

 

[Tynan]

the motorcyclists routinely call them that as well

cylcecraft is worth skimming through unless you know it all

 

[BentMikey]

Terminator, my comment wasn't aimed so much at you. As I've said before, you get away with sub-optimal or even incorrect riding because of your experience, but that still doesn't make it right. As for the roundabout crash, I didn't have any problem with the way you handled it, and given the specific situation I'd be tempted to say that's just a bad junction, and that your way is the best of a set of poor options. In other words, you're displaying good cyclecraft in my opinion.

Tetedelacourse, you're right, Cyclecraft is by no means essential, but I'm willing to bet pretty much everyone on here can still learn from it and improve their riding. To suggest otherwise is simply wrong and arrogant.

 

[Tetedelacourse]

Terminator, my comment wasn't aimed so much at you. As I've said before, you get away with sub-optimal or even incorrect riding because of your experience, but that still doesn't make it right. As for the roundabout crash, I didn't have any problem with the way you handled it, and given the specific situation I'd be tempted to say that's just a bad junction, and that your way is the best of a set of poor options. In other words, you're displaying good cyclecraft in my opinion.

Tetedelacourse, you're right, Cyclecraft is by no means essential, but I'm willing to bet pretty much everyone on here can still learn from it and improve their riding. To suggest otherwise is simply wrong and arrogant.

Maybe BM, maybe.

 

[Nigeyy]

I've never read "Cyclecraft" or "Effective Cycling" by John Forester (equivalent in the States I think). However, I would like to read both, just never got around to buying the books -you can usually always learn something, and I am willing to learn. I think what has helped me on a bicycle and while driving a car is I did do a bit of motor biking in my younger years -and fortunately I did the advanced motor cycling course (Gold star or something? Can't remember, but it was how police motorcyclists were trained or something similar and I learnt loads). I'll never claim to be a great skilled driver, but I think I'm fairly safe.

Having said that, what I've found from personal experience is that where you cycle can most definitely change how you cycle, and just as importantly, better define the probabilities and expectations of how other road users behave. I don't know if Cyclecraft has reference to that, but I strongly believe it should if it doesn't.

This might make painful reading, but though I can't ever recall running a red light on a bicycle in the UK, in the States where I live now I do it very frequently for my own perceived safety reasons. So long as you are in a cogent and coordinated state, use logic, use observation, react accordingly and adapt to your environment, I do believe you can reduce (not eliminate) the probability of an accident or collision.

Crap.Cyclecraft wasn't around when I started commuting to work.

My cycling position wasn't criticised in the mid 70's when I was on all those club runs otherwise my cycling would be different today.

I have already changed the way I cycle once on advice on this board and found I had an accident on a mini rounderbout very soon after so it's not about ego.

Just because people cycle the way that you don't approve and doesn't match up to the way you think it should be done well im sorry but im not happy with changing the way I have ridden for the last 30+ years .Im not doing anything illegal *unless* I was cycling dangerously of which im sure I am not.I tend to cycle defensively and even more defensively against unpredictable pedestrians now.

BentMikey this is not a rant.Just trying to get my point across.

 

[Terminator]

Terminator, my comment wasn't aimed so much at you. As I've said before, you get away with sub-optimal or even incorrect riding because of your experience, but that still doesn't make it right. As for the roundabout crash, I didn't have any problem with the way you handled it, and given the specific situation I'd be tempted to say that's just a bad junction, and that your way is the best of a set of poor options. In other words, you're displaying good cyclecraft in my opinion.

Tetedelacourse, you're right, Cyclecraft is by no means essential, but I'm willing to bet pretty much everyone on here can still learn from it and improve their riding. To suggest otherwise is simply wrong and arrogant.

Funny over the last few days I have been looking round for my copy of Cyclecraft.I have been thinking about this all day and I think the word you are looking for is arrogant.I'd be arrogant because I dont think I would need to read cyclecraft.Although I would hate to think im aan arrogant cyclist who thinks he knows it all because he has been doing it so long.I don't think I am better than other cyclists and basically I want to get home in one piece without incident.Ironically on the way in I made two mistakes because I think my concentration wasn't right...once at Leyton and the other at Algate East.Basically one car slowed down and the other stopped and they both caught me out.Luckily I slammed the brakes on sharpish.I put this down to the fact I had worked the five previous days and worked a lot of hours over the weekend.Also had a run in with a motorist using a mobile just past Aldgate who let his car drift to the left so much I though he was doing a left turn till he straightened it out.

Strange in your second paragraph you found the word you need.

On the ride home it was a real nightmare with aggressive driving and a van that passed too close to me making me take evasive action.On arrival home I found one of the lights on my bag had failed (the left hand one) which made me think that the van driver had misjudged how close he had passed to me.(or I live in cloud cuckoo land).The right one was dim as well although the centre one was ok and the one on my bike was working also.

Makes me think that those two lights do more than what I give them credit for.Just testing the rechargeables now.

 

[BentMikey]

I didn't use arrogant because I don't think it applies to you. I remember you were open to other ideas, you listened to others comments and tried different approaches, which pretty much proves that!

I'm not sure it applies to Tete either, as I meant the second para as a more general comment where in the past quite a few experienced cyclists have rejected it out of hand and rubbished the book, quite unjustifiably in my opinion.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I'm not sure it applies to Tete either, as I meant the second para as a more general comment where in the past quite a few experienced cyclists have rejected it out of hand and rubbished the book, quite unjustifiably in my opinion.

Cyclecraft is a good book that all cyclists and for that matter, all drivers should read. However it isn't the Bible, or even the law. As with anything like this, it is something to be incorporated into your own experience rather than 'obeyed.' It is frequently very useful and sometimes questionable. That's my only take on the matter, and I don't think that qualifies as rubbishing it.