The Close Pass

[User]

 

[Garz]

I was thinking this the other day when a chav listening to tinny trash techno stuff must have been a couple of inches from my bars. I guess it would take an observant PC following directly behind to act upon this as they are meant to give you the same room as overtaking another vehicle.

 

[gaz]

What would they be fined for?

 

[Bobtoo]

Rule 163 says "You should", it's only law in the HC if it says You MUST/MUST NOT as in other rules on the page.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070236

 

[gaz]

A very long time ago I wrote to my MP concerning the safety of cyclists, and I have just received a reply from a Mike Penning who apparently is the minister responsible for road safety (my letter got to the very top). He assures me that rule 163 of the highway code is entirely adequate and the soon to be introduced fixed penalty notice for careless driving will make the enforcement of this law more efficient.

Now I am no legal brain but I sort of think rule 163 is utterly meaningless, and as such I can't really see how anyone could ever have been fined for not leaving a cyclist enough room, after all you only have to leave as much space as you would give a car and since that space is not quantified then 6mm is more than enough. But may be I am wrong, may be motorists are often prosecuted for falling foul of 163, I am sure someone on this group will know of at least one case.

Read these two posts I did on my blog, first pointing out the flaws in rule 163 and the second on how much room you should give a cyclist as backed up by the DFT.


Write back to him and explain how the highway code works (should vs MUST/MUST NOT) and how exactly rule 163 gives not meaningful distance that people should pass at and that the DFT have noted that the amount of space you should leave when passing a cyclist is totally dependent on the situation and in some cases 'as much room as you would a car' or in fact possible, would not be enough space.

 

[Bman]

What would they be fined for?

Dangerous Driving?

 

[slowmotion]

Spookily enough, I had the closest pass ever in my two years on the bike yesterday. Three lanes of traffic stopped at a set of lights. I was in the left-most lane at the front. The lights go green, and the two lanes nearest me are all heading straight ahead. The second vehicle to pass was a yellow AA Transit-style van, just a bit close to my right. As I very quickly learned, it was towing a car on a two-wheeled dolly trailer that was about a foot or a bit wider than the van, on both sides. The inner wheel of the trailer knocked my right foot off my SPD pedal. I wasn't clipped in so the knock missed the bike by an inch or so. If I was clipped in, or on flat pedals, I would have been off.

I have the reg. of the AA van, the reg. of the Black Mercedes being towed on the dolly trailer, and the location and time of this slight scare. Is there any point in reporting this to anybody? My guess is that I should, for the greater safety of other people on bikes, but I frankly CBA.

Is that an irresponsible and selfish attitude to take? I am genuinely interested in your opinions. Thanks.

 

[gaz]

Dangerous Driving?

It wouldn't be a simple FPN, has to go to courts etc.. so it's a length process and one which I doubt will ever be followed through in current cases. Just look at all the things that cyclists have filmed and submitted to the police. less than 10 have come to a prosecution of any sort.

 

[gaz]

Spookily enough, I had the closest pass ever in my two years on the bike yesterday. Three lanes of traffic stopped at a set of lights. I was in the left-most lane at the front. The lights go green, and the two lanes nearest me are all heading straight ahead. The second vehicle to pass was a yellow AA Transit-style van, just a bit close to my right. As I very quickly learned, it was towing a car on a two-wheeled dolly trailer that was about a foot or a bit wider than the van, on both sides. The inner wheel of the trailer knocked my right foot off my SPD pedal. I wasn't clipped in so the knock missed the bike by an inch or so. If I was clipped in, or on flat pedals, I would have been off.

I have the reg. of the AA van, the reg. of the Black Mercedes being towed on the dolly trailer, and the location and time of this slight scare. Is there any point in reporting this to anybody? My guess is that I should, for the greater safety of other people on bikes, but I frankly CBA.

Is that an irresponsible and selfish attitude to take? I am genuinely interested in your opinions. Thanks.

The president of the AA is a cyclist. Worth letting him know

 

[edindave]

Spookily enough, I had the closest pass ever in my two years on the bike yesterday. Three lanes of traffic stopped at a set of lights. I was in the left-most lane at the front. The lights go green, and the two lanes nearest me are all heading straight ahead. The second vehicle to pass was a yellow AA Transit-style van, just a bit close to my right. As I very quickly learned, it was towing a car on a two-wheeled dolly trailer that was about a foot or a bit wider than the van, on both sides. The inner wheel of the trailer knocked my right foot off my SPD pedal. I wasn't clipped in so the knock missed the bike by an inch or so. If I was clipped in, or on flat pedals, I would have been off.

I have the reg. of the AA van, the reg. of the Black Mercedes being towed on the dolly trailer, and the location and time of this slight scare. Is there any point in reporting this to anybody? My guess is that I should, for the greater safety of other people on bikes, but I frankly CBA.

Is that an irresponsible and selfish attitude to take? I am genuinely interested in your opinions. Thanks.

I wouldn't bother reporting it. Nothing will happen. It was a close shave but dwelling on it and trying to take action will not get you anywhere. Just forget about it and move on. Save yourself the stress.

I had my drop bar end clipped by a sticky out reflector on a trailer being towed by a transit van on a country road not long ago - as HLab will tell you! Thankfully it was on a spring and bent back or it could have been very messy. It was a single track road barely wide enough for the van never mind the trailer. If I'd known the van had a trailer I'd have moved into primary and not given him the chance to pass. But it's not worth worrying about in hindsight.

 

[slowmotion]

Thanks gaz and edindave,

CBA. Life's too short to be dealing with shoals of these....

http://www.ehow.co.uk/video_4973013_identify-slippery-dick-fish.html

 

[snorri]

I wouldn't bother reporting it. Nothing will happen. It was a close shave but dwelling on it and trying to take action will not get you anywhere. Just forget about it and move on. Save yourself the stress.

I think that is poor advice.

 

[edindave]

I think that is poor advice.

If slowmotion has evidence and witnesses then I would advise differently. But based on the information given here it's going to be one person's word against the other as to who was right or wrong.

Lot of hassle and stress for little or no outcome.


Edit:
Actually snorri - I think you're right, having re-read the thread again I didn't pick up on it being an AA van.

I think it would be worth giving them a call as they will at least have a word with the driver to educate him.

I'd been a bit blinkered thinking back to my own close shave with a random white van with a trailer.

 

[slowmotion]

Thanks, snorri, gaz and edindave,

It wasn't a big deal at all, and perhaps I should not have posted anything. If it had been a random van, I would have let it go within 30 seconds. It just pissed me off a bit that it was an AA one, an organisation that projects an image of some kind of responsibility as users of the highway.

Water under the bridge, a battle not worth fighting, a cowardly retreat on my part, all these things, actually.

It's gone.
Thanks

 

[CopperCyclist]

Dangerous Driving?

Never going to happen - and please apportion the blame correctly with the CPS rather than the police. Without getting into it, its due to charging standards. They tend to drop all offences to one slightly below, in order to increase convictions. Its the same reasons why most people who commit Actual Bodily Harm (by the legal definition) only get charged with Common Assault/Battery.

Careless/Inconsiderate Driving is possible, but I can only see it happening if you have a police officer behind you who is triggered to stop the driver (perhaps seeing an adverse reaction from you after the close pass, being a cyclist themself and understanding etc), and then you stop as well and agree to give up an hour or so of your time for a statement, and attend court if necessary.

Without the police witness, you'll never get a 'your word v theirs' minor traffic offence prosecution. Cameras can be used - but they don't really show distance that well, and I would anticipate the CPS not wishing to run with camera footage alone.

The soon to be introduced will make little difference - it'll simply mean that if the driver admitted it at the scene we could skip the statement stage unless they later choose to contest the ticket, but seriously - who here expects a driver to agree that they passed to close?

By the way, all of the above is purely regarding the 'close pass' scenario. If you actually got hit, or the pass was so bad you feel off your bike, thats different.