The cycle chat guide to being middle class

[nickyboy]

I was agreeing with you wholeheartedly until your last para. Not convinced of that one, sadly.

Middle class is not a closed shop. If you have what it takes it doesn't matter what your parents did, what school you went to etc. Sure it may not be as easy, but if you're good enough and work hard enough what "class" you are matters not a jot

 

[oldfatfool]

Having flying ducks on your sitting room wall

 

[Flick of the Elbow]

Having flying ducks on your sitting room wall

That's the image I always think of when somebody uses the phrase about getting our ducks in a row

 

[Cubist]

1. Class has nothing to do with wealth or income and everything to do with behaviour, values and aspiration.

2. There's a clip on Youtube of a stand up comedian. He asks the audience to put their hands up if they consider themselves to be middle-class. Barely anybody does, so he points out that they are sitting in a theatre in Glasgow on a midweek evening, so why the reticence?

3. Nowadays everybody is so determined to appear "right-on" that the lines between classes have become meaninglessly blurred. Here we all are desperately trying to pretend we're all working class that we forget that the landed, moneyed classes used to look down on the middle classes. Surely by traditional definition the middle classes were the ones who lived in the town houses or commuted into the city; office workers, merchants, clerks, managers, possibly earning enough to enjoy the arts and the restaurants, and a grammar school education for the kids, whereas the working man worked in industry or transport etc.

What some people on here are describing as "Middle class" are actually either arriviste, or the nouveau riche. Then of course there is the Upper Middle Class. For them there is the land, the family money, the "breeding", the schools, the "old-boy" networks, the society calendar and invitations. It's no accident that you can tell how someone has been brought up by watching them eat a meal for example, or by the fact that they don't go into a panic if they are invited to a black-tie function 'cos they'll have to go and hire a suit, and agonise over whether they should wear a wing collar shirt. If it comes naturally, then that's breeding. If you have to buy GQ or Tatler to learn how to be a "chap" or name your baby then you've already missed the bus. Or was it the shooting brake?

 

[Flick of the Elbow]

the lines between classes have become meaninglessly blurred

A good thing surely ?

 

[Cubist]

A good thing surely ?

That's a whole new thread.

 

[Gravity Aided]

I dunno, I supposedly live in a classless society, and the lack of class is a detriment.Witness recent election and political outcomes, and judge for yourselves.

 

[Cubist]

I dunno, I supposedly live in a classless society, and the lack of class is a detriment.Witness recent election and political outcomes, and judge for yourselves.

A well done steak with ketchup?

 

[Gravity Aided]

A well done steak with ketchup?

Sorry, I'm a rare-medium rare man myself. My father in law always said he wanted his steak rare enough to moo when it walks in.

 

[Cubist]

Sorry, I'm a rare-medium rare man myself. My father in law always said he wanted his steak rare enough to moo when it walks in.

Depends on the cut of course!

 

[Gravity Aided]

Porterhouse, although my father was more of a rib-eye devotee. I also take what I can get, yellow tag is acceptable if the cut is good enough to start with. I usually cook the day I buy, with steaks and roasts.

 

[swee'pea99]

Sorry, I'm a rare-medium rare man myself. My father in law always said he wanted his steak rare enough to moo when it walks in.

"Cut its head off, wipe its arse and stick it on a plate." - Aussie for 'rare'.

 

[srw]

I dunno, I supposedly live in a classless society,

You don't. You live in a society where the divisions of class are far stronger and longer-lasting than they are over here, and are far more bound up with other, equally strong divisions of wealth, race, religion and education. There was a recent Freakonomics radio podcast on the subject which is worth listening to - "The American Dream" of social mobility being available for everyone (which is why the US thinks of itself as classless) is a fiction in the US and applies far more in Canada.

The traditional three-class system in the UK is a gross over-simplification imposed on a complex layered society by sociologists. It always has been, but that's particularly true now. It tries to wrap extremely complex and overlapping markers of birth, wealth, employment type, interest, educational attainment, attitude, political views, level of aspiration, views of other people and other things in a single label with two categories (since the upper classes are defined purely by birth). I don't know whether the over-simplification is because the people who perpetuate it aren't terribly bright or whether it's just very difficult to communicate the complexity.

And if you view increasing equality of opportunity and egalitarianism as a desirable outcome for society (I do) I think using crude discriminatory labels is unhelpful. Tell a bunch of people that they are the "white working class" and "left behind" and possibly "feckless" and they will start behaving like it.

 

[nickyboy]

That doesn't quite gel with:

My meaning was that "success", however you want to define it is possible for anyone if you work hard and offer some skills. Not being middle class (whatever that actually is) does not preclude one from success in any field.

However, my view is that if someone is not born, brought up and educated in a middle class environment, no matter how hard they may try they will never attain the middle class ethos, whatever that is. I'm a typical example. I had a working class upbringing and I've done OK career-wise but I will never be middle class, despite maybe having the physical trappings of a middle class lifestyle (birkestocks excepted)

What is interesting is that in my career I meet quite a few very wealthy people who have come from working class backgrounds. Over a beer, they will confide in me (because I have a similar background) that they feel they don't "belong" when we are meeting lawyers, accountants etc and that at some time, someone will tap them on the shoulder and say "back where you came from sunshine"

 

[Drago]

There's no doubt I am middle class. Ford Fusion, you see.