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PaulSB

Squire
I'm surprised there are no comments from Utd fans about the wrongly given goal.
Even the pundits couldn't understand either the decision or the explanation.
Perhaps it's because even Utd fans recognise VAR for what it is, absolute bollocks, and should be consigned to the history books tomorrow. It's another "improvement" that's spoiled a once exciting aspect of the game..........the post match arguments.

Still the "BIG" clubs, I believe Utd were one, called for it and got it. All I can say is be careful what you wish for.
 

PaulSB

Squire
Speaking of match improvements. I do like the way refereees give players a five second countdown at throw-ins and goal kicks. Now that is a definite improvement.
 

Vapin' Joe

Formerly known as Smokin Joe
Perhaps it's because even Utd fans recognise VAR for what it is, absolute bollocks, and should be consigned to the history books tomorrow. It's another "improvement" that's spoiled a once exciting aspect of the game..........the post match arguments.

Still the "BIG" clubs, I believe Utd were one, called for it and got it. All I can say is be careful what you wish for.

The reason we've got VAR is mainly because of the very people who are now complaining most loudly about it, the ex players employed as TV pundits. When a referee is deemed to have got a decision wrong after 10 replays from all angles and is then slated and called incompetent for an understandable error they are putting pressure on the game's rulers to do something about it. So they did, and now we are where we are. It will never be scrapped because too much has been invested in it.
 

Accy cyclist

Legendary Member
I'm surprised there are no comments from Utd fans about the wrongly given goal.
Even the pundits couldn't understand either the decision or the explanation.

Watching the game on MOTD I saw Bruno Fenrnandez kick Phil Foden while he was on the floor, then Foden kicked him back, so Fernandez decided to fein serious injury. It was 50/50 but only Foden got punished. Fernandez got his wish in getting his target sent off thinking it'd make things easier against ten men. To me the City goal might've been dodgy, but it was poetic justice for Fernandez's cheating!
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
Watching the game on MOTD I saw Bruno Fenrnandez kick Phil Foden while he was on the floor, then Foden kicked him back, so Fernandez decided to fein serious injury. It was 50/50 but only Foden got punished. Fernandez got his wish in getting his target sent off thinking it'd make things easier against ten men. To me the City goal might've been dodgy, but it was poetic justice for Fernandez's cheating!

Watching through your anti-utd glasses?

Fernandez didn't really kick Foden, probably enough for a foul, never enough for a booking.

Foden then lashed out with both feet into the groin area (hit him above the balls). Always going to be a red card.

And the city goal was just plain wrong. If you try to play the ball and were in an offside position, then you are offside, even if you miss it by a couple of inches. If the rules say otherwise, the rules need changing.

Haaland actually looked offside from the cross anyhow to the naked eye.
 

Dave7

Legendary Member
Location
Cheshire
20.15......checked results to see Uts were 2 nil up (no surprise to me)
21.15ish.....checked again to see Brighton were winning 2:3.
21.16......switched on to watch (as you do being a Lpool fan).
One thing to say..... the pundits really had a go at Utd saying Brighton was far superior. I didnt see it from the 30 minutes I saw as Utd had several chances to equalise. Mind you, Brighton had chances to increase the lead.
 

No Ta Doctor

Veteran
Well chuffed to hear Arsenal have been drawn to play away at Highbury Stadium, against a team that wear red shirts with white sleeves.

Given our teenage sensation's 2 goal motm performance at Ipswich I'm hoping the tabloid back page headline after the game will be Fleetwood Max
 

laurentian

Senior Member
The reason we've got VAR is mainly because of the very people who are now complaining most loudly about it, the ex players employed as TV pundits. When a referee is deemed to have got a decision wrong after 10 replays from all angles and is then slated and called incompetent for an understandable error they are putting pressure on the game's rulers to do something about it. So they did, and now we are where we are. It will never be scrapped because too much has been invested in it.

Quite.

Personally, I don't care whether we have VAR or not but:

It gets tight calls right more often than it doesn't - I guess, prior to VAR, this was no better than 50/50.

Football pundits, players, supporters and managers either need to accept the outcome of VAR or ditch it and accept the referee's decision as final and not question it. Seeing the percolation of the castigation of referees down at youth/child level is a blight on the greatest game on earth.

I find it puzzling that any other sport I can think of that uses tech to establish an "in match" ruling seems to accept it without question (Rugby, Tennis, Horse Racing, Athletics, Cricket) and yet football somehow can't accept some decisions of either the referee directly or VAR.
 
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laurentian

Senior Member
Watching the game on MOTD I saw Bruno Fenrnandez kick Phil Foden while he was on the floor

. . . and I'd love to see VAR extended post match to incidents like this and simulation etc. Guilty parties being subject to retrospective yellow or red cards, imagine this in the recent World Cup! (OK, given the Trump/Infantino interference, the last one was probably not a good example)
 

Vapin' Joe

Formerly known as Smokin Joe
Quite.

Personally, I don't care whether we have VAR or not but:



I find it puzzling that any other sport I can think of that uses tech to establish an "in match" ruling seems to accept it without question (Rugby, Tennis, Horse Racing, Athletics, Cricket) and yet football somehow can't accept some decisions of either the referee directly or VAR.

Rugby, tennis and cricket have natural breaks during the game where time can be taken to view video evidence. In horse racing incidents are reviewed after the race has finished. It doesn't work in a free flowing game like football where the interruptions of anything up to five minutes completely alter the game, irritate everybody and in the case where a kneecap or a couple of toes are used to rule a goal out for offside it become ridiculous. If it isn't visible to the naked eye then disregard it.
 

AndyRM

XOXO
Location
North Shields
Rugby, tennis and cricket have natural breaks during the game where time can be taken to view video evidence. In horse racing incidents are reviewed after the race has finished. It doesn't work in a free flowing game like football where the interruptions of anything up to five minutes completely alter the game, irritate everybody and in the case where a kneecap or a couple of toes are used to rule a goal out for offside it become ridiculous. If it isn't visible to the naked eye then disregard it.

This. 100% this.

"But why can't it be like in rugby/cricket/tennis?"

It's a completely different game.
 

No Ta Doctor

Veteran
Quite.

Personally, I don't care whether we have VAR or not but:

It gets tight calls right more often than it doesn't - I guess, prior to VAR, this was no better than 50/50.

Football pundits, players, supporters and managers either need to accept the outcome of VAR or ditch it and accept the referee's decision as final and not question it. Seeing the percolation of the castigation of referees down at youth/child level is a blight on the greatest game on earth.

I find it puzzling that any other sport I can think of that uses tech to establish an "in match" ruling seems to accept it without question (Rugby, Tennis, Horse Racing, Athletics, Cricket) and yet football somehow can't accept some decisions of either the referee directly or VAR.

I think if you want people to respect VAR decisions then they're going to have to start getting them right more often. We've played four matches and already have a penalty denied that should have been awarded and a penalty given against that should have been denied - Arteta is right to say that's not acceptable. The City goal that didn't get chalked off for offside v Man Utd was even more egregious than both of those decisions - and would probably have been flagged by the lino if VAR wasn't there. These are decisions that have the potential to cost tens - or even hundreds - of millions of pounds and yet they seem to be being made by people who don't really know what they're doing, and who are being lead by people that are too concerned with whatever the prevailing narrative is and how to "improve" football. Not every negative talking point on MotD needs a rule interpretation change - particularly as they tend to get tried out for about five match rounds then quietly forgotten about as a bad idea.

I've said before that VAR has made a rod for its own back with the "clear and obvious error" rule. It's supposedly designed to stop too much intervention (which should be a good thing) but it just leads to people - myself included - becoming enraged when we think VAR has missed something. Far better if it were a tool for the ref to use than this clunking nuclear option.

I disagree that managers questioning decisions after the game is necessarily a bad thing - it's different from players mobbing the ref, which should be sanctioned. Ignorant and abusive parents have always existed - they were there when I coached 6 year olds a quarter of a century ago - and are far more closely related to fan culture than managers/players (it's pretty much always been the case that the home fans will try and influence and intimidate the ref - but it's absolutely unacceptable at amateur/kids level etc).

As for the other sports using VAR, they're mainly used to check objective fact (ball in or out, snick on a bat, ball touched down etc.). I've yet to hear any football fan moan that the automatic ball-over-the-line detector was biased or stupid.

I'd happily do away with VAR entirely in football, apart from anything that can be near enough fully automated like that. It's not worth having to wait for a goal to be cleared for.
 
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No Ta Doctor

Veteran
. . . and I'd love to see VAR extended post match to incidents like this and simulation etc. Guilty parties being subject to retrospective yellow or red cards, imagine this in the recent World Cup! (OK, given the Trump/Infantino interference, the last one was probably not a good example)

Retrospective action was what we used to have, and it was also rubbish. It was only able to award red cards, not yellows, supposedly for serious violent incidents. I think the ref might have had to ask for a new incident to be recorded or something. It was inherently susceptible to things like who was the England captain at the time...

They do have it in the lower leagues now though - someone got a two match ban for a handball leading to a goal that was judged after the game to have been intentional. Can't quite remember who it was now - think I mentioned it up-thread, it was right at the season start
 
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