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yello

back and brave
Location
France
Fairness - yes, I agree. Sport is inherently unfair (someone's always going to be taller, faster, stronger) and I consider that to be expected. As you suggest, sport is about unfairness and, to an extent, rewarding it. It's undeniable that clubs attempt to, and sometimes succeed in, buying success.

People talk about 'leveling the playing field' but that is, imho, a romantic, utopian notion when one considers the inherent unfairness. And I think that's where FFP goes wrong. It tries to impose a version of fairness by stopping rich owners buying the best, and buying wins. That's why I think the rules are ill-thought. I get the intention (to stop clubs going to the wall) but it also stops clubs investing for the longer term, by a using a clumsy calculation. I think TV money (or the uneven distribution of it) distorts that calculation because those revenues can be short term.

I get the argument about sustainability. Clubs with smaller catchment areas (if I can use that expression) will always struggle to generate the revenues from gate receipts. They get as creative as they can but are dependant on additional streams and TV money is the big one. (I'm a Leicester supporter so know well the folly of budgeting on non-guaranteed sources of income, particularly CL receipts) To be sustainable, I feel clubs need a little more leeway than current rules allow. The 3 year floating, or whatever it is, is insufficient - consider players' contract durations for starters.

Forest took a risk that paid off but it could have all gone horribly wrong for them. Everton too to a lesser degree.

Clubs may well be critised for over ambition, for trying to run before they can walk etc etc but the I reckon they've been prevented from even jogging. It's particularly gauling when a club like Man City have (allegedly?) broken rules for years and bought success on and off the pitch.
 

wakemalcolm

Legendary Member
Location
Ratho
Have the owners not pretty much threatened Burnham with: that's a nice economy you've got here. You wouldn't want anything to happen to it, would you?

Sadly, I think the punishment for throwing too much money at the club will be to throw some money at the FA. Maybe a deduction of something like 31 points "the biggest ever deduction in English football" which they'll recover from and perhaps a transfer embargo running from 1st February to 30th June.
 

Vapin' Joe

Formerly known as Smokin Joe
Have the owners not pretty much threatened Burnham with: that's a nice economy you've got here. You wouldn't want anything to happen to it, would you?

Sadly, I think the punishment for throwing too much money at the club will be to throw some money at the FA. Maybe a deduction of something like 31 points "the biggest ever deduction in English football" which they'll recover from and perhaps a transfer embargo running from 1st February to 30th June.

I don't think the rest of the football world would or should accept that. I can't see any other form of punishment that being kicked out of the EPL. The game cannot give in to blackmail.
 

PaulSB

Squire
eh. Excuse me. I'm going to have to take issue with this Rovers bought the Premiership stuff. It's simply untrue. That season Utd spent £20m to add to their existing squad while Rovers spent £14m the squad. Overall Uncle Jack invested £25m in transfers, Utd already had a squad that had taken years to build. We played catch up.

Yes, we paid heavily for Shearer, Sutton and Flowers but Atkins, £45k, Wilcox through the ranks, Berg £300k, Sherwood £400k, Pearce £300k, Le Saux £700k, Ripley £300k?? and so on.

Rovers won the PL because in Kenny Dalglish we had an outstanding manager who could spot a player and make a team gel.

We won that title fair and square and earned every single point. I know, I watched.

With respect saying Rovers bought the title is a cheap jibe. We got things badly wrong afterwards but in those 3 - 4 years under Kenny we were, as the theme music always said Simply the Best.
 

No Ta Doctor

Veteran
eh. Excuse me. I'm going to have to take issue with this Rovers bought the Premiership stuff. It's simply untrue. That season Utd spent £20m to add to their existing squad while Rovers spent £14m the squad. Overall Uncle Jack invested £25m in transfers, Utd already had a squad that had taken years to build. We played catch up.

Yes, we paid heavily for Shearer, Sutton and Flowers but Atkins, £45k, Wilcox through the ranks, Berg £300k, Sherwood £400k, Pearce £300k, Le Saux £700k, Ripley £300k?? and so on.

Rovers won the PL because in Kenny Dalglish we had an outstanding manager who could spot a player and make a team gel.

We won that title fair and square and earned every single point. I know, I watched.

With respect saying Rovers bought the title is a cheap jibe. We got things badly wrong afterwards but in those 3 - 4 years under Kenny we were, as the theme music always said Simply the Best.

It's not a cheap jibe, it's the truth. Man Utd were also accused of buying the league in that period as they were spending huge amounts - though a little later their golden generation came through. Their money was, however, generated from their income. Blackburn broke the current English transfer record for Shearer and paid even more than that for Chris Sutton - a year later than Utd bought Keane and over a million more expensive. Shearer's transfer would have been £116.5 mill in today's prices, Sutton's £110 mill.

Laws-Maguire Index, which adjusts prices for changes in purchasing power - from the prof of football finance at Liverpool uni:

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You also maybe forgot that for all the £750,000 players you also had Batty for about £3mill and Warhurst for just a bit less. Even Stuart Ripley was a top ten most expensive transfer in '92 at about £1.7mill. This was a massive overhaul of a squad that was only promoted in '92 and had spent over 25 years outside the top division before that. How many of the players that played in the 2nd tier played in that title winning side?

These are the players I could find that were in the promotion winning squad and '92 and the title winning squad just three years later. Just six of them. Three of them were bought during the promotion season and one of them didn't play enough games in the title winning season to get a winners medal. One was Blackburn's record transfer fee at the time, and was the record for a club outside the top flight.

Pos. Nation Player
GK ENG Bobby Mimms - not enough games for a medal
DF SCO Colin Hendry - half a season in 2nd tier
MF ENG Mark Atkins
MF ENG Tim Sherwood - half a season in 2nd tier
MF ENG Jason Wilcox
FW ENG Mike Newell - part season in 2nd tier - club transfer record, record fee for a club outside the top flight


Of course Kenny Dalglish was a good manager. So is Pep Guardiola. Of course Dalglish could get a team to gel. So could Guardiola.
They both had an eye for players, and they both bought expensive players with money that wasn't earned by their club. Guardiola did it illegally, Dalglish didn't. When I say Blackburn bought a title I say it because if Warner hadn't splashed out the cash from his own pocket they'd probably never have even got promoted, let alone won a title. I don't think that's controversial at all. When he died and the club was sold there were complaints the family foundation didn't give enough to the club - a sign that they'd been living beyond their means.
 

Dave7

Legendary Member
Location
Cheshire
The Appeal Hearing.
I read that the appeal 'should' be reviewed and decided on within 12 weeks from submission and be made public with 4 weeks from the decision. So......we 'should' know the result some time in January.
I imagine the committee will use every minute of that 12 weeks.
 

PaulSB

Squire
@No Ta Doctor we won't agree on the subject so it's best to move on.

This is an interesting article re Utd's finances. £1.15bn of debt. They really are stuffed for decades to come with every round of financing increasing the debt and interest payments.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ckg5j87jy3zmo
 
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