The heretics guide to Brompton use - Part two - it is not a premium product!

[Time Waster]

Brompton is sold as a premium product and is considered well engineered. Yet there is known to be several issues that question this. The nuts and bolts rust, the paint flakes off and the frame rusts. There are things that are minor but all add up to the feeling that there is something wrong with Bromptons.

I might have had a bad experience because for a few years I had to ride it in some terrible conditions for any bike. Yet when I used other bikes there were less issues so perhaps it is not me but issues with the bike.

My Brompton had rusting nuts and bolts from about a few months of use from new. Well, I had a period of time without riding after 1 week of use so that is a few months of actual use with nearly two months storage in a dry shed. It only started to rust after being used again. Sure it might be surface rust and not an issue but I have not known stainless steel nuts and bolts on a bike rust like that before since my first kids bike of dubious quality that was stored outside despite my parents telling me off for not putting it away when not using it. Then there was the rusty water residue on the inside of the frame at the fold. Only surface rust residue but does not look good. What is not good is the paint that flaked off and then the frame rusted there which made more paint flake off. On my bike I question the paint quality. Tempest Blue I think it is called.

I am also not likeing the plastic chain tensioner / +/- gear derailleur. I have had a fair few issues keeping that working and now I just don't bother with it so am on a 3 speed hub bike to all intents and purposes. The hub gear I keep having to play around with when it suddenly stops changing down from 3rd gear.

So I am a moaning person being too critical about it? Well perhaps but I have heard a fair few online who have said similar things. Even on the Brompton reddit I have read comments similar. Heavily downvoted of course!!

What do you think? Are they as premium as made out or just a bike that was once great and now poorly made?

PS I am only posting comments I have experienced and read of others with them online too. I think my experience of a theoretically great bike that is poorly executed these days is shared. I mean the bike does a job well, very well such that none is better. That is fold to be used on trains without issue or stored away easily or easily carried in cars / taxis, buses, etc. It is a commuting bike for mixed mode travel. It does this very well. It is my use case for it. I do not ride it for leisure or enjoyment but for utility to get me from home to work via a 40 minute train journey. Others have other uses for it but IMHO that is its main use case.

 

[Deafie]

The negative comments on Brompton quality put me off buying one for 20 years. I don't have a problem with ours. Hers gets used twice a week on fairly convoluted journeys in every type of weather and carries a good 50lb of luggage, it requires some looking after but that is to be expected considering the fold, wheel size and nature of it's workload. It's never going to be as maintenance light as a full size rigid framed bike.

Parts could obviously be of a more premium quality but there has to be consideration for the point of diminishing rewards.

Leave them alone! They are brilliant!

 

[Drago]

It's a premium price for an undoubtedly middling (and that's being generous) "quality" product.

But then look after one as you would any bike and I see no fundamental reason why they wouldn't give years of economical service.

 

[wafter]

Can concur with most of that. Not had any problems with the tensioner but the jockey wheel "pusher" tends to get very lazy when wet / dirty.

I think most of the fixings are chromed steel rather than stainless, while the threaded hexagonal inserts that retain the jockey wheels are blued alloy steel which is a terrible choice; and unsurprisingly rust heavily.

The frame and to a lesser extent stem hinges are a horrible lashup of a design too; as is the seatpost insert to a degree.

They're a typical British product; innovative and not without legitimate merit but flawed and achaic in some respects, poor quality in some areas and heavily-marketed on a prestige image that's not really deserved.

I think there are probably many similies with old British Leyland era Jag - nice on paper / when it's behaving itself but also a bit sh*t to own.

 

[Punkawallah]

Possibly an opportunity for ‘after-market’ replacements for the naff bits?

 

[raleighnut]

I've never thought of Bromptons as being a 'premium' product, more a fashion accessory

 

[CaptainWheezy]

Possibly an opportunity for ‘after-market’ replacements for the naff bits?

There's already tons of aftermarket bits that improve on the cheapo originals, including titanium replacements for just about every nut and bolt on the bike, great if you're trying to avoid rusty fasteners!

 

[Time Waster]

So far it is taking a lot more looking after. It is an absolute muck magnet, I have some regions where i think I would need to dismantle it to get it truly clean. Not something I am willing to do. If you cannot maintain it without stripping it completely back to the individual parts then I do not think it is a good design personally.

Whatever the bolts and nuts are they are not as good as even my PlanetX London Road which was a cheapish bike. Half the price of my Brompton but it managed to find and use stainless steel nuts and bolts that have simply not rusted. I have never left my Brompton outside in the rain but this full sized bike has spent time out in the rain, on cycle tours when we left the cover behind. With the price of nuts and bolts in stainless steel or other materials that resist rust IMHO it would not add much to use them. Anyone got an idea how much more a trade order for bulk bolts and nuts in stainless steel would cost over whatever Brompton use? That one change for the better would be something that would make me feel significantly less underwhelmed with the brand.

My Brompton gets the same care as pretty much all my bikes. I clean, degrease and lube. I check the gears and brakes. I check what needs to be checked and I above all listen to the bike in use and check anything that sounds different. If I can't or don't want to do a certain maintenance job that I deem necessary then I take it in to a shop to get them to sort it out. Used to have a local bike mechanic who was pretty good but now it takes a 25 minute train ride or half hour drive to get to somewhere that is familiar and trusted for Bromptons. I take my road bikes for similar to another bike shop nearer that I prefer but I do not think they are great on Brommies.

I think @wafter has it right over the nature of this British brand. It is marketed on image and heritage. It is also popular as something to own, perhaps it is different and that is liked, but whatever it is there are real fans who see nothing wrong with them. IMHO it is innovative and might have once been well made, I cannot comment on that. I do know that mine has been cared for but has been used. It is meant to be utilitarian with a design that suits a mixed mode commuting use but having to spend too much time to keep it in a fit state and lets be honest looking good, it is a bike that you want to keep nice as well as working well. However I think part of that is it is durable. The paintwork needs to be tough, it needs to be made with quality components and parts that last well with minimal maintenance other than a regular clean and minor fettle with maybe annual service going into more. I think this is my full sized bike attitude but the Brommie needs a bit more IME. I really see it as a nice looking and innovative product for a niche use but about 25% of what it needed is missing. Part of that is the rust reistant components such as nuts and bolts, better paintwork and perhaps less plastic on key components.

Anyone know what the other folding bike brands are like in this issue? Are they finished better? Tern, Dahon, R&M Birdy, etc. Do they have similar issues or are they actually better made / put together?

 

[Time Waster]

There's already tons of aftermarket bits that improve on the cheapo originals, including titanium replacements for just about every nut and bolt on the bike, great if you're trying to avoid rusty fasteners!

I know that but why did they not use some of them in the first place? I am not talking about titanium but simply rust resistant stainless steel bolts.

If, as mentioned up thread, they are using chromed steel nuts instead of stainless steel or blued alloy steel then why? AFAIK chromed steel is not that much cheaper than stainless steel, certainly not in bulk and compared to the total price of the bike and cost to make. Would they all add even £50 on a bike? I bet a lot less in the bulk buy Brompton will have. it is those little things that have a big effect on what people think about them I reckon.

 

[All uphill]

So far it is taking a lot more looking after. It is an absolute muck magnet, I have some regions where i think I would need to dismantle it to get it truly clean. Not something I am willing to do. If you cannot maintain it without stripping it completely back to the individual parts then I do not think it is a good design personally.

Whatever the bolts and nuts are they are not as good as even my PlanetX London Road which was a cheapish bike. Half the price of my Brompton but it managed to find and use stainless steel nuts and bolts that have simply not rusted. I have never left my Brompton outside in the rain but this full sized bike has spent time out in the rain, on cycle tours when we left the cover behind. With the price of nuts and bolts in stainless steel or other materials that resist rust IMHO it would not add much to use them. Anyone got an idea how much more a trade order for bulk bolts and nuts in stainless steel would cost over whatever Brompton use? That one change for the better would be something that would make me feel significantly less underwhelmed with the brand.

My Brompton gets the same care as pretty much all my bikes. I clean, degrease and lube. I check the gears and brakes. I check what needs to be checked and I above all listen to the bike in use and check anything that sounds different. If I can't or don't want to do a certain maintenance job that I deem necessary then I take it in to a shop to get them to sort it out. Used to have a local bike mechanic who was pretty good but now it takes a 25 minute train ride or half hour drive to get to somewhere that is familiar and trusted for Bromptons. I take my road bikes for similar to another bike shop nearer that I prefer but I do not think they are great on Brommies.

I think @wafter has it right over the nature of this British brand. It is marketed on image and heritage. It is also popular as something to own, perhaps it is different and that is liked, but whatever it is there are real fans who see nothing wrong with them. IMHO it is innovative and might have once been well made, I cannot comment on that. I do know that mine has been cared for but has been used. It is meant to be utilitarian with a design that suits a mixed mode commuting use but having to spend too much time to keep it in a fit state and lets be honest looking good, it is a bike that you want to keep nice as well as working well. However I think part of that is it is durable. The paintwork needs to be tough, it needs to be made with quality components and parts that last well with minimal maintenance other than a regular clean and minor fettle with maybe annual service going into more. I think this is my full sized bike attitude but the Brommie needs a bit more IME. I really see it as a nice looking and innovative product for a niche use but about 25% of what it needed is missing. Part of that is the rust reistant components such as nuts and bolts, better paintwork and perhaps less plastic on key components.

Anyone know what the other folding bike brands are like in this issue? Are they finished better? Tern, Dahon, R&M Birdy, etc. Do they have similar issues or are they actually better made / put together?

We have three small-wheel bikes. Tern, Bickerton and Raleigh.

They all seem to collect grime, especially on the rim brakes, chains and derailleurs, but their paintwork and parts remain in good condition after lots of hard use.

 

[Time Waster]

Apart from my Brompton I only have a recumbent with less than 700 sized wheels. I have owned kids bikes (my son has been riding since was it 12" or 14" wheels. Those bikes were actually easy to keep clean and in fit state. I do not think the wheel size is the issue but perhaps the folding design creating more complexity that seems to catch crud and stick to it like glue.

 

[CaptainWheezy]

I agree that the existing fasteners are crap but it's not just Brompton that are affected. I've got a set of long reach Tektro brake callipers on my winter road bike and no matter what I coat the fasteners and spring with, they rust regardless!

At least if you swap them for titanium on the Brompton, you save a bit of weight as well.

 

[chriswoody]

Anyone know what the other folding bike brands are like in this issue? Are they finished better? Tern, Dahon, R&M Birdy, etc. Do they have similar issues or are they actually better made / put together?

I bought my Tern Link Uno brand new for €400, back in 2015. I commute on it daily through all winds and weathers and it lives outside for the most part. The lower half of the bike is almost permanently covered in crud and grime this time of year, despite the full SKS mudguards. I found that reducing the width of the front tires to 36mm did reduce the amount of crud thrown, but not eliminate it.

So in 10 years, the paint has lost its lustre a little, but aside from a few wear spots it's in fantastic condition. There's no sign of bubbling under the paint from the aluminium frame at all. The nuts and bolts are all rust free and the only rust to be found is the pivot bolt on the brake lever, the spring on the brake caliper and the front chainring. Generally the bike has survived it's decade of abuse really well and will no doubt go on to give me many more years of pain free service.

I do find though that unlike Brompton, Tern and Dahon have a range of different models and quality can vary greatly between them. I originally bought a bottom of the range, Dahon Vybe in 2014 and this was terrible, I had no end of quality issues with it and let it go after one year it was so badly built. My bike, whilst generally fantastic, is a mix of cheap and quality components. It came with SKS mudguards, stainless steel fittings and a decent shimano coaster brake hub as standard. But it has a cheap pressed steel crankset and no name, long reach front brake caliper that is just up to the job of stopping this bike, but nothing heavier or faster. The hinge pin is also not a serviceable item and it does have a weight limit of roughly 110 kg. I had a work colleague who was close to this limit when fully dressed in winter and with work panniers, he went through a couple of frames with broken hinge pins.

Part of what's contributed to it's generally reliability and longevity is the fact that it's also single speed, so no low hanging derailleurs to gum up or break, just a wonderful simple machine with very little to go wrong. Personally I think it's a shame that neither Tern or Brompton offer a single speed bike in their respective ranges any more, as a daily commuter bike, single speed has a lot to commend it.

 

[Drago]

I agree that the existing fasteners are crap but it's not just Brompton that are affected.

This is true.

However, there aren't many bikes at comparable prices with such poor finishing kit, as Chris ably demonstrates above.

 

[Fastpedaller]

If Brompton owners are aggrieved with the bike they should complain to Brompton in writing/email - maybe that's the best/only way to get the management to take complaints seriously (as with most companies). Maybe some owners have already done this of course. As regards the paint/powdercoat I don't use my 2007 (not used before I got it) superlight daily or in the rain (unless I get caught out) so I'm not able to give any valuable feedback, but my observation is that all companies are being forced down the route of lower and lower VOC limits with the paint - I'm surprised they can put any paint on! My opinion on this (use of low VOC paints) is that in the long-run it's counter-productive because goods will just receive multiple coats of paint over the same period that one good coat would do the job (much like pot hole monthly fillings)... But of course, my opinion counts for nothing where regulations are enforced.