The Mass Trespass of Kinder Scout....1932

[Dave7]

I assume most CCrs will be aware of this (particularly us cloth capped norveners).
Just reading a novel based around that area brought it to mind.
I find it quite moving ......although I am not generally in favour of joe public breaking the law when it suits.

Pre 1930s the wealthy land owners forcibly prevented "ordinary" folk enjoying much of the countryside......the Derbyshire Peak area being one example.
1932 a lot of these "ordinary" folk banded together to protest by a mass trespass walk.
The land owners and their foot soldiers used force to prevent it......some "ordinary" folk were jailed for their part.
But........
Largely because of their courage we now have the right to enjoy many areas of natural beauty.
Maybe some on here had relatives who were involved in 1932 ??

 

[Deleted member 23692]

There's a big gap between the myth and the truth surrounding the the Mass Tresspass and the 'fight' for access in general. The Ramblers were actually annoyed by the act of the small of commies from Manchester calling it "a positive hindrance and deterrent to the discussions and negotiations to secure the freedom of the hills".

The first access rights group was established after the first of the Enclosures Acts in the mid 1800's and the 'fight' for access reform still very much goes on today

 

[Dave7]

There's a big gap between the myth and the truth surrounding the the Mass Tresspass and the 'fight' for access in general. The Ramblers were actually annoyed by the act of the small of commies from Manchester calling it "a positive hindrance and deterrent to the discussions and negotiations to secure the freedom of the hills".

The first access rights group was established after the first of the Enclosures Acts in the mid 1800's and the 'fight' for access reform still very much goes on today

But the fact of the actual trespass was no myth.
And it was movements such as that that give us the freedom to roam that we have today.

Next you will be telling me that Mermaids Pool on Kinder doesnt have a real mermaid living in it

 

[Drago]

Nelson Mandela, love him or hate him, proved that in the long run the best answer to oppression is to be passive in return. By simply existing, bynbeing there, by not going away, eventually the oppressor exhausts themselves, and the position becomes untenable. Even if the mass trespass hadn't happened, it wouldn't have been long before the same result was achieved.

 

[Deleted member 23692]

It's vastly exaggerated in its scale, the events and the effect it had on the so called 'freedom to roam'... hence me using myth. There were lots of other organisations working to increase access whose methods were far more effective and influential but their efforts are overlooked.

There were countless mass tresspasses before and after that time, but only this one gets quoted as being pivotal (and by some sources responsible) in securing access which didn't legally happen fully across England and Wales until 68 years later via the Countryside and Rights of Way Act in 2000.

The most influential legislation following the mass trespass wasn't until 1949 (National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act) which established the National Parks, Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty and the protect rights of way by establishing Definitive Maps. There was no wholescale 'right to roam' included. It did however enable Access Authorities to enter into access agreements with landowners but very few did.... the Peak District National Park was one notable exception who negotiated access agreements for most of the Dark Peak for which the landowners got a payment, and a free (at public expense) Warden/Ranger service to manage and enforce the bylaws on them... A role which I performed for 9 years before moving job to establish CRoW rights elsewhere.

 

[Randomnerd]

Psychologically, the English are still wedded to the idea that land doesn’t belong to them. Right to roam hasn’t been a revolution. Access to our land is still severely curtailed, and most people couldn’t care less. Ramblers are mostly well-heeled and middle-aged, and don’t represent our society.
I’m a fan of keeping bridleways alive by riding them round my patch. It’s a lonely job, and often involves a long-handled billhook.
When the peasants eventually revolt, the paths will be full of happy, multicultural faces, lefties campers, leftover hippies, Hunter wellie labradoodlers, all saying “hello”. Yeah right

 

[Deleted member 23692]

Right to roam hasn’t been a revolution. Access to our land is still severely curtailed, and most people couldn’t care less. Ramblers are mostly well-heeled and middle-aged, and don’t represent our society.

User surveys show that CRoW achieved very little except to legalise/formalise the trespass what was already happening on most land covered by the Act which includes mapped mountain, moor, heath and downland along with registered common land.

From personal experience in the 14 years since CRoW was established there is very little extra 'exploring' off the PRoW network and established historical pre-CRoW desire lines. It has given landowners more rights to eject the nobber element in our society, but it's still a long way short of being workable for both user and owner.

Of more interest is the change in users over time. Originally, those fighting for access were the those from the industrial towns wanting some fresh air at weekends and those returning from war looking for that green and pleasant part of a 'country fit for heroes': The working and the common folk. 60 years later the countryside is mainly middle class and gentrification abounds... when did it all change?

I've been involved with several initiatives to get the 'underrepresented groups' outside and most have come to nothing. For a myriad of reasons they simply aren't interested in the green bits between the built up bits..... until they get older and wealthier

 

[Randomnerd]

It’s a big shame, our disconnectedness from land.
I’ve been on both sides of the fence: country estate for story trying to keep people out; freelance woodman trying to get people in. Woods are getting carved up and sold to yoghurt-knitters for fortunes; media peddles the countryside as a set of calendar pictures (The Archers ffs); second homers rob locals of a chance to live where their roots lived; schools management discourage all nature access unless by bus, fully hi-vizzed; just walking outdoors (like cycling for pleasure) is seen by how polloi as verging on the perverted.

 

[Dave7]

. 60 years later the countryside is mainly middle class and gentrification abounds... when did it all change?

I've been involved with several initiatives to get the 'underrepresented groups' outside and most have come to nothing. For a myriad of reasons they simply aren't interested in the green bits between the built up bits..... until they get older and wealthier

I dont have your experience (or anywhere near it) so can only speak from my experience.
I assume you mean the people who walk on it as against those that live on it.
I was brought up quite poor. Toilet down the yard and a tin bath for Saturday night only. Yet my parents often took us into the countryside and taught us to love it.
In more recent years, on our walks in the peaks or more often Wales or Cheshire......I cant recall meeting many of those middle/upper class types. On reflection the people we have met were quite diverse.
OK.....many younger people may prefer their football/rugby & pubs but I just cant see that "pigeon holeing" of people.
Of course.......I have been known to be wrong

 

[Deleted member 23692]

That's a similar upbring to mine... grew up an an area of Nottingham famous for all the wrong reasons. Parents well off so holidays and day out were spent in the countryside, which is where my love of it came from too. I just see similar days out occurring less and less these days.

Anyhoo back on topic... I've been looking for teaching notes from when I used to do a few access related lectures for a college but alas they've been 'filed'.

Nevertheless, this is a very good article by David Hey published in Agricultural History Review, (Volume 59, Number 2, December 2011) which puts the mass trespass in context with the 'fight for access' - http://www.bahs.org.uk/AGHR/ARTICLES/59_25_Hey.pdf