The MP and the 15minute city conspiracy

[ClichéGuevara]

I don't think there's room for an Amazon depot every 15 minutes.

 

[Badger_Boom]

I don't think there's room for an Amazon depot every 15 minutes.

True, but then this isn't aimed at the Amazons of the world, but to enable more people to leave the car at home sometimes.

 

[matticus]

Why do so many ignore so much evidence that diverges from their opinion?
Why are they so trenchant in those opinions?
Why is there an observed move to the extremes so that discussions avoid the middle ground where consensus and understanding can grow?

It's very easy to hurl an insult at someone. Much more difficult to spend some time understanding why they might think that way.
Without the "Why" there can't be consensus, only an imposed solution. And that will veer over and back depending on who wields the power. (Any current examples belong in NACA.)

I think what is often forgotten is that the changing of an opinion is an internal process. Not external. Insulting, mocking, ignoring someone will not change their mind. There has to be a line of communication and some degree of trust so that questions can be asked and the person has to explain the "Why", even if only to themselves.
It's probably also a good idea to let them retreat from their view with a degree of grace, if that time ever comes.

So, maybe hugging a Conspiracy Theorist is actually a good first step

Yup. Hopefully you noticed that the OP clearly asked why do these drivers think this!

The psychology/sociology is rather complex, so in my local area i've been trying to engage using facts. The council has done a really clear FAQ https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23177152.oxfordshire-oxford-council-abused-traffic-filters/

It contains stuff like this:
"Will Oxfordshire residents need permission from the councils to travel across the city?

No.

Everyone can go through all the filters at any time by bus, bike, taxi, scooter or walking. Furthermore, residents will still be able to drive to every part of the city at any time – but in the future, during certain times of the day, you may need to take a different route (e.g. using the ring road) if you want to travel by car.
"

SURELY drivers reading this can be brought back onside. Surely?

 

[Badger_Boom]

Why do so many ignore so much evidence that diverges from their opinion?
Why are they so trenchant in those opinions?

Because social media has conditioned them to believe that anything that diverges from their opinion is "propaganda".
Because social media has told them that they're entitled to their opinion and you can't stop them stating it.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I'm in one such neighbourhood. I'm within fifteen minutes walk of the local banks, PO, school, kindergarten, food shops, chemist, and railway station. I'm also within fifteen minutes of my work. It took some planning to achieve this but it's worth it.

Oddly enough (work commute aside) a lot of suburban London loosely fits these criteria too. That's more accidental than planned but it's how it is. I can (and do) walk to most places I need to locally. Central London is a 20 minute train ride away and is also eminently walkable and has a dense public transport network. The only times I need to use the car tend to be for destinations outside London. Intra London drives are limited to garden centres a few times a year and occasionally taxi-service running people home late at night.

 

[Alex321]

Oddly enough (work commute aside) a lot of suburban London loosely fits these criteria too. That's more accidental than planned but it's how it is. I can (and do) walk to most places I need to locally. Central London is a 20 minute train ride away and is also eminently walkable and has a dense public transport network. The only times I need to use the car tend to be for destinations outside London. Intra London drives are limited to garden centres a few times a year and occasionally taxi-service running people home late at night.

Where I live, we have a garage about 5 minutes walk away which also has a very small general shop/newsagent. And there is a pub about 2 minutes walk away.

But after those, there is nothing closer than about 3 miles.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

In urban areas, most already fit a 15 minute neighbourhood in the most part, but the villages could never really achieve it, and they add a lot to congestion as they have to travel in to use facilities.

A lot of things, such as faith schools as one example could never really fit the project anyway.

It's basically gesture politics, with no meaningful outcome for the expense and disruption.

 

[matticus]

In urban areas, most already fit a 15 minute neighbourhood in the most part, but the villages could never really achieve it, and they add a lot to congestion as they have to travel in to use facilities.

A lot of things, such as faith schools as one example could never really fit the project anyway.

It's basically gesture politics, with no meaningful outcome for the expense and disruption.

Over to you @HobbesOnTour ...

 

[Andy in Germany]

In urban areas, most already fit a 15 minute neighbourhood in the most part, but the villages could never really achieve it, and they add a lot to congestion as they have to travel in to use facilities.

I live in a village, and it isn't the only one like this.

 

[Alex321]

In urban areas, most already fit a 15 minute neighbourhood in the most part,

I'm not convinced of that, outside of the town centres. There can be quite large suburban areas with not very much in the way of local facilities. And many late 20th century housing estates were built on the assumption people would have cars, so would not require local facilities.

 

[Andy in Germany]

It's basically gesture politics, with no meaningful outcome for the expense and disruption.

It's urbanism as it was practised before cars came along, whereupon planners built for cars, not people for a a couple of generations. Apart from the names, it's just returning cities and to some extent smaller settlements to their natural design.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

It's urbanism as it was practised before cars came along, whereupon planners built for cars, not people for a a couple of generations. Apart from the names, it's just returning cities and to some extent smaller settlements to their natural design.

That'll be when there were no hospitals or schools for the poor, and most villagers were effectively slaves living a subsistence lifestyle from what they could grow or forage. Hardly comparable or enticing.

 

[cougie uk]

Where I live, we have a garage about 5 minutes walk away which also has a very small general shop/newsagent. And there is a pub about 2 minutes walk away.

But after those, there is nothing closer than about 3 miles.

Did you know this when you bought the house - or have things changed ?

 

[Andy in Germany]

Yup. Hopefully you noticed that the OP clearly asked why do these drivers think this!

...

SURELY drivers reading this can be brought back onside. Surely?

Part of the problem is that for a couple of generations drivers have been "spoilt" by getting everything they could possibly want or need, no matter the expense or engineering difficulty involved. As a result it has become 'normal' to be allowed to drive a car wherever and whenever you want. If there's a delay because of a valley, a bridge gets built; to save the arduous journey around a city, another bypass gets created to shave those vital minutes off the journey. Driving means not having to expect any inconvenience, witness the howls of protest at any diversions or long term closures.

Any attempt to redress this balance will result in similar howls because by definition making life better for anyone outside of a car means infringing on the ability to drive where you want, how you want and without really thinking about it. Cue opposition from the motoring lobby, for the "infringement" of their "rights"; rights which are not extended to any other group.

This was illustrated in the current Berlin elections where the candidate for the FDP (a party always on the lookout for a populist cause to join) wrote a tweet demanding "Fairness for drivers". He was rather wonderully answered by a lot of people suggesting that "Fairness for drivers" would be a wonderful idea that they'd be happy to support, and that they looked forward to his proposals to redesign streets for pedestrians, cyclists and public transport so they could vote for this.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Many people do their errands and other activities close to their work place, so presumably they'll have two or more options of 15 minute neighbourhoods.