The Netherlands seems like a more civilised country

[ComedyPilot]

And they use double decker trains for commuters, passengers sit at the top level and the bottom level, doubling the capacity of a train carriage.

Train fares are quite low too.

€6.00 for the bike IIRC and €20.00 for a single Rotterdam to Venlo

Hull (as much a port as Rotterdam) to Liverpool (similar total distance) £46.00 no option for the bike.

Sigh

 

[Bikeabit]

And they use double decker trains for commuters, passengers sit at the top level and the bottom level, doubling the capacity of a train carriage.

Train fares are quite low too.

Yes, an expectation that you will bring your bike onto the train and tickets that can be bought at local post office at the time of travel and are a fixed low rate. Not everything is positive in Holland (particularly politically and they have the highest rates of cycle theft in Europe), however the state transport system does treat you like a human being. I certainly feel more civilised for the experience. The Dutch seem to feel they can own a car (and not feel guilty for doing so) yet for economic and convenience reasons not have to use it.

How can this be brought here?

 

[psmiffy]

This is a report on government cycling policy in Netherlands and helps explain why approx 26% journeys are made by bike compared to 2% here. They basically spend loads of cash in a very joined up way and with a long term consistent transport plan.

In terms of transport just spend a fortnight in Netherlands and then wait for your heart to sink when you get off the ferry in Harwich.

I agree that in the Netherlands that they spend a lot of money on cycling facilities in a very joined up way – however with cycling having a 26% share as opposed to 2% in the UK is not surprising – similarly it is not surprising that the politicians during elections are very quick to point out their cycling friendly credentials by being pictured with their cycles on election posters. Until cycling takes off in a big way in the UK and can be seen to be a significant interest/electoral group - it is not likely that significant funds to construct significant cycling infrastructure will be made available.

Personally when arriving in Harwich I do not find myself particularly disadvantaged or depressed by the lack of cycle facilities – It is just a different environment.

 

[ComedyPilot]

The reason I feel a little down is because I have seen it can be done, and the positive effect it can have on a community, yet we as a nation can't seem to see just how shoot our roads are for motorists, cyclists and pedestrians alike.

 

[delport]

Yes, an expectation that you will bring your bike onto the train and tickets that can be bought at local post office at the time of travel and are a fixed low rate. Not everything is positive in Holland (particularly politically and they have the highest rates of cycle theft in Europe), however the state transport system does treat you like a human being. I certainly feel more civilised for the experience. The Dutch seem to feel they can own a car (and not feel guilty for doing so) yet for economic and convenience reasons not have to use it.

How can this be brought here?

In the 1960s i believe there was a free bike scheme, it may have been in Holland.
Where you see a bike and you can use it and leave it where you want, then another person will use it and leave it.In other words no one can steal the bike as you use it when you want and don't take ownership.
No money was involved as far as i know.

For some reason i think it was around the time of the protests in France 1968.

 

[Haitch]

In the 1960s i believe there was a free bike scheme, it may have been in Holland.

The infamous White Bicycle scheme. Within a month all the bikes had been dumped in the canals or nicked, resprayed and sold on.

 

[delport]

The infamous White Bicycle scheme. Within a month all the bikes had been dumped in the canals or nicked, resprayed and sold on.

Thanks, so that is what happened.

 

[Haitch]

Thanks, so that is what happened.

In fairness, there is a similar scheme going quite stongly in one of the national parks. The park is fenced and all exits are manned.

 

[beanzontoast]

The reason I feel a little down is because I have seen it can be done, and the positive effect it can have on a community, yet we as a nation can't seem to see just how shoot our roads are for motorists, cyclists and pedestrians alike.

+1. I'm envious of any country where cyclists are more prominently featured in planning. Even if we got a broad cross-section of road users to agree, I'm not clear on how the entrenched situation in the UK could ever take on the best features of the cycling provision in a country such as Holland, especially given the current public spending problems.

 

[Arch]

Yes, an expectation that you will bring your bike onto the train and tickets that can be bought at local post office at the time of travel and are a fixed low rate. Not everything is positive in Holland (particularly politically and they have the highest rates of cycle theft in Europe), however the state transport system does treat you like a human being. I certainly feel more civilised for the experience. The Dutch seem to feel they can own a car (and not feel guilty for doing so) yet for economic and convenience reasons not have to use it.

How can this be brought here?

First, we need a convenient landmass with room for the whole British population to be held temporarily. France might rent us a bit, or I've heard you can fit the population of the world on the Isle of Wight if everyone squashes up.

Anyway, you empty the island, having appointed special border staff - all of whom must be utility cyclists.

Then, you make the population queue up for re-entry interviews with the border staff. Anyone suspected of not being sympathetic to the New Order would be turned away. Not sure where too, perhaps we could annex Greenland or something. The first million or so readmitted would be set to work building the new infrastructure, which would be a series of 'car lanes' running sporadically alongside the current road system. That of course, would be reserved for cyclists...

I don't see any problems with this method, do you?

Of course, you don't actually have to go down the infrastructure route - the French have some great cycle tracks, but even better they have miles and miles and miles of very quiet rural roads, and drivers who respect the needs of cyclists. And of course, a similar population to Britain, but twice the space.

Infrastructure costs money, changing attitudes takes time, but to do either, you have to want to, and I don't know that enough important people want to.

 

[snorri]

Holidays in the Netherlands wouldn't be half the fun if the UK had good facilities for cyclists.

 

[Arch]

[QUOTE 1322393"]
You're bored Sue, aren't you?
[/quote]

I spent this morning discussing making soap with a hippy...

 

[Domestique]

My two pence worth about going to Nedderlands.
1 the bike racks on the ferry might be great for an unloaded bike, but a bike with four panniers etc its a different matter. Take a spare bungee cord and strap your bike to the side railings on the car deck.
2 the car park in Harwich is cold and you (cyclists) will be the last people to board the ferry. Wrap up. On the Dutch side, check in and go straight onto the ferry.
3 you will be seriously down when you get back to the UK and go out for a ride.
4 enjoy

 

[User169]

My two pence worth about going to Nedderlands.

2 the car park in Harwich is cold and you (cyclists) will be the last people to board the ferry. Wrap up. On the Dutch side, check in and go straight onto the ferry.

Reminds me of some brave cyclists I saw at the end of last year waiting to board at Harwich. The weather was horrendous and there didn't seem to be anywhere to take shelter; they must have been soaked through by the time they got on the boat.

I didn't realise cyclists got on last.

 

[gaz]