The One Show, BBC1, last night

[Dec66]

Lead item was about a guy I know, whose wife was a locum GP until she died, suddenly, on Christmas Eve, 2014. She had finished one locum engagement the day before, and was due to take up another in the new year; she had also been paying into a scheme to provide "death in service" cover.

The NHS pension people are refusing to pay out on the grounds that she wasn't actively working on the day she died, despite her having engagements in the New Year. Because of this, this poor guy, and his two beautiful little daughters, are facing the loss of their home and an uncertain future.

Full story here -http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/pensions/family-of-gp-locum-who-died-on-day-off-denied-death-in-service-benefits/20010259.article#.VfLJ2b1wbqB

Absolutely tragic. I urge you to watch the show on catch up if you can.

 

[Subotai72]

I saw it in the paper the other week. It's absolutely disgusting especially when they're giving Golden Handshake retirement packages to consultants and then re-hiring them on more money (see link)! It makes my blood boil.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-rehired-days-later-job-pay-rise-152-000.html

 

[Milkfloat]

It sounds like a tragic story. I did not see the tv show, but I assume the decision was justified because the locum was technically contracting and not therefore an employee? I also assume that she was being paid a premium to be a locum in the first place?

 

[Dec66]

It sounds like a tragic story. I did not see the tv show, but I assume the decision was justified because the locum was technically contracting and not therefore an employee? I also assume that she was being paid a premium to be a locum in the first place?

They are using the technicality that she was not working on the day she died to avoid paying; she would have worked that day but decided not to in order to spend time with family over Christmas. She had contracts in place for the New Year and the payment into the pension fund covered her into that period.

As for the "premium"; I've no idea, but I don't see how that's relevant? She became a locum to fit into family life as she had two little girls, not to make money.

 

[Milkfloat]

They are using the technicality that she was not working on the day she died to avoid paying; she would have worked that day but decided not to in order to spend time with family over Christmas. She had contracts in place for the New Year and the payment into the pension fund covered her into that period.

As for the "premium"; I've no idea, but I don't see how that's relevant? She became a locum to fit into family life as she had two little girls, not to make money.

I can only comment on normal contracting as I don't fully understand how locums work

It does seem a really weird anomaly to be paying into an NHS pension in this situation, I would have thought that like normal contractor's she would not be receiving any pension contributions she would only be paying into a private pension.

Sorry to sound callous, but being paid more is relevant - the premium paid to a contactor is there to cover the uncertainty of employment and the lack of other benefits like PTO, healthcare, pension etc. No matter what the reasons for choosing to contract it would be hard to justify that contractors get equal benefits to lower paid salaried workers.

Just to reiterate - I am not trying to start an argument and my heart goes out to the family for their loss, but it does seem as if the situation with locum's is very weird.

 

[martint235]

I haven't seen the programme but it all sounds a little strange. IIRC all GPs are contractors to the NHS and not NHS employees so I'm not sure how they would be able to purchase an NHS death in service package. It sounds like someone somewhere made a big mistake but that's no help to the family. Best thing would be for the insurers to pay out but they'll probably just refund the premiums.

 

[Dec66]

I can only comment on normal contracting as I don't fully understand how locums work

It does seem a really weird anomaly to be paying into an NHS pension in this situation, I would have thought that like normal contractor's she would not be receiving any pension contributions she would only be paying into a private pension.

Sorry to sound callous, but being paid more is relevant - the premium paid to a contactor is there to cover the uncertainty of employment and the lack of other benefits like PTO, healthcare, pension etc. No matter what the reasons for choosing to contract it would be hard to justify that contractors get equal benefits to lower paid salaried workers.

Just to reiterate - I am not trying to start an argument and my heart goes out to the family for their loss, but it does seem as if the situation with locum's is very weird.

But that's the point: she WAS paying into a pension scheme, which promises death in service benefit, despite being effectively a contractor. Having been a contractor in IT, I know exactly what you are saying, but it seems that the NHS are running a scheme which is effectively worthless.

 

[Fnaar]

I saw it in the paper the other week. It's absolutely disgusting especially when they're giving Golden Handshake retirement packages to consultants and then re-hiring them on more money (see link)! It makes my blood boil.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-rehired-days-later-job-pay-rise-152-000.html

Plenty of NHS managers also getting massive golden handshakes, and then mysteriously getting another job in another trust, on a higher salary.
PLus management consultants charging massive fees to "train" managers. (I know someone who gets, for a day's "work" doing exactly this, the same as my monthly salary.)
Shameful it really is.

 

[midlife]

They are following the rules of death in service, I've been paying my pension for 33 years. If I stop being in service for any reason then my death in service payment stops..... Very sad but that's the rule

Shaun

 

[Dec66]

But it wasn't her former employer... She was due to restart locum contracts after the Christmas break. She had her rota sorted for six months.

 

[midlife]

If I decide to leave my job here in Carlisle on Friday and start at the new West Cumberland hospital on Monday and die at the weekend then I am not in service so I get no death in service benefit. Other accrued pension benefits stay.

It's why we are recommend by all the finance bods that follow us around to have life / level term assurance.

Shaun

 

[Levo-Lon]

Rules is rules

 

[Dec66]

If I decide to leave my job here in Carlisle on Friday and start at the new West Cumberland hospital on Monday and die at the weekend then I am not in service so I get no death in service benefit. Other accrued pension benefits stay.

It's why we are recommend by all the finance bods that follow us around to have life / level term assurance.

Shaun

So why bother paying into this fund which supposedly provides "death in service benefit", when it doesn't?

She was returning to the locum post she already held, after a break for Christmas. Nobody is arguing the strict letter of the rules, just the rather cruel interpretation of them.

 

[martint235]

But it wasn't her former employer... She was due to restart locum contracts after the Christmas break. She had her rota sorted for six months.

So why bother paying into this fund which supposedly provides "death in service benefit", when it doesn't?

She was returning to the locum post she already held, after a break for Christmas. Nobody is arguing the strict letter of the rules, just the rather cruel interpretation of them.

I really think this is a case of mis-selling either by mistake or for profit. As a GP she would have been contracted to provide a service to the NHS, she could at the same time have private patients. She's her own employer in other words and the "death in service" policy was meaningless as unlike a nurse for example, she didn't "work" for the NHS.

 

[midlife]

True, it's just tragic how it happened. The NHS pension benefits for NHS employees plus GP's beats the same contributions paid into a private pension hands down. None of us usually count the death in service benefit and have life insurance to look after dependents when we die.

We pay the contributions primarily for the 50 percent of final salary we get as a pension after 40 years of work.(in my NHS scheme as I am an old guy). The death in service is simply an add on.

I am worth an awful lot if money dead from life assurance policies to keep my family going/ pay off the house / university etc.

Shaun