The Police wont police our 20mph zone - my letter of complaint

[mjr]

When's the police commissioner next up for election?

 

[mickle]

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, or offering my personal opinion on it. Merely providing a resource that was relevant to your initial post, and would likely answer some questions you posed to who I assume is a councillor.

It clarifies the Police viewpoint (well, their guideline), and their correct or incorrect justifications. It may help in structuring further complaints you may have, and I was intending on entering a debate. Just merely sharing some interesting information.

Sorry if I gave you wrong impression - I'm very grateful for your input, it was a very interesting read and will definitely help to frame my nex email. I beleive very strongly that we should question many of their assumptions.

 

[Vertego]

This really isn't a new story. See this article from The Times, March 2013...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3705446.ece

 

[theclaud]

This really isn't a new story.

No one claimed it was, did they? It remains a matter for concern, as many of us are campaigning for the introduction of 20mph zones, which will not be effective unless we are also campaigning for them to be enforced. Which is what mickle is doing.

 

[Vikeonabike]

The issue is not really whether or not Constabularies enforce 20 mph speed limits. It's simply they do not have the resources to do it! Yes they can all put together a little one day operation across the county or maybe a week of action involving a many "Partner Agencies".
The truth of the matter is that unless you put cameras up then it is just not feasible to do. Lets say you have 20mph zone that has no turnings off it. The you need one officer with a speed camera! You probably need another 2 or 3 officers for pulling in the motorists and issuing tickets then a chase car down the road! So we are looking at 5 officers!
So now this 20mph zone has 2 roads leading off it! Add at least another 2 officers and one chase car.
What's the result?
"999 Which service Please?
"Police!"
"Sorry sir no Police available, the whole shift are doing speed checks on a 20mph zone!"
It's not just speed limits.. New hoverboard things.. Yep WOA only. Of course it is illegal to use in public spaces (roads/footpaths etc) but they don't have the resources. Same with unlit cyclists.. haven't got time.
If' it's not a domestic, CSE, People trafficking, mental health, violent crime or a burglary and it's not happening right now it takes a back seat... a long way down the bus!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Lack of resource is an issue but that cannot reasonably justify a decision to not to enforce at all.

Sussex Police in the market towns at least, I'll not speak about Brighton and HoveActually, justify their decision not to enforce at all on the basis of philosophical objection to the concept of 20mph zones where people live.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Can we tolerate police services deciding which bits of law they are prepared to enforce?

The perception is that we, in the "historic market towns" of Sussex, are generally law-abiding folk, though my personal experience as a road-user suggests this is no longer the case on the roads locally, we are generally policed via consent" and we generally allow, nay encourage, plod to use their discretion.

Horsham had one of the first 20 mph zones in the country. SFAIK it has never been enforced. It is now routinely ignored by the majority of drivers.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Can we tolerate police services deciding which bits of law they are prepared to enforce?

Unfortunately, Police do need to prioritise. I can tolerate them prioritising more serious crimes than SOME 20mph zones, but your priorities may be different to mine.

I have no issues with 20mph zones were they make sense, but there are those that seem quite ridiculous.

Some may live in an area where the zones are logical and well implement, some of us do not. This does shape opinions of schemes which wrongly get applied to a nation as a whole.

Here is an example of a street near where I live.

https://goo.gl/maps/NoVyeLpLbpS2
This is the start of a 20mph zone, through a terraced housing estate, with traffic calming measures, this makes some kind of sense.

https://goo.gl/maps/eMcLVTUmkav
If you stay on the road for about half a mile, you come to this area. This is the end of the 20mph zone, and goes back to 30 at the end of the housing estate

https://goo.gl/maps/6EBhxjqxqUS2
That is just after the change back to 30mph. They do a 20mph zone somewhere with wide pavements, then change to a 30mph zone, just in time for their to be 2 playgrounds/playing fields opposite each other!

https://goo.gl/maps/nx1jY1jMYM52
It then goes back to 20mph, in an area where you will be doing well to be getting to that speed due to parked cars, turn offs, many small side roads etc.


It is a huge waste of money, the first one makes a little sense, but traffic lights, and parked cars keep traffic speeds down here anyway. Then they change to a 30mph zone past 2 playgrounds, and then change to a 20 again somewhere you can't do that speed never mind enforce it.

I'd much rather see those playgrounds under an enforced 20mph zone, maybe even an average camera past the playing field as there are no turn offs. This happens quite often throughout my borough, and may be has coloured my opinion of them. Hopefully some of you guys have an intelligent council.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I'd like all existing 30 mph zones to become 30kph zones.

but then I'd like all non-motorway speed limits to change from mph to kph.

 

[StuartG]

Southwark has gone 20 mph. Lewisham is dragging its feet. The border runs close to here so its interesting to watch what is happening. There is no enforcement but it is working a bit. We are lucky(!) in London that most roads are not suitable for overtaking (two lines of parked cars making oncoming vehicles an issue to pass).

So it takes only one vehicle in ten to choose to drive at less than 30 for all to have to follow meekly (or occasionally not so meekly) behind. Which means a fair amount of time the traffic flow is 20/25 mph instead of 30+ in identical roads across the frontier.

But it takes nerve to be the one in ten setting the pace. But there is enough of us bloody minded types to make a difference.

 

[DaveReading]

Large chunks of Reading set to be subject to a blanket 20mph limit:

http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/n...ing_20mph_zones_set_to_come_in_by_the_spring/

 

[summerdays]

They have prosecuted 2700 people in Bristol according to this article. I rember when it was published there were people ringing the radio station to complain that they didn't know that they could be fined.

 

[mjr]

Do local authorities get to keep the proceeds of this idiot tax? Bath made a tidy sum from vehicles passing no entry signs in the city centre IIRC... but Norfolk have fined no one in King's Lynn the last time it was published :-(

 

[Smurfy]

I'm not really surprised, I haven't seen a mobile speed camera in a residential area for years. And the most recent one I saw looked like a pair of PCSOs, one with a speed gun, the other with a clipboard, so I suspect it resulted in advisory letters rather than speeding tickets. There just doesn't seem to be the money or will to do it any more in residential streets. The only mobile cameras I've seen recently were on fast rural A and B roads where the motorcyclists go to get their adrenalin fix.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

Manchester has large 20mph areas now (zone / limit mean different things but for the life of me I can't remember which it is).
I have been pushing for enforcement here too - no interest. Council wants me to go door to door to get people to 'sign up' to it, to get a banner (most schools have one up), etc etc. What would work is one mobile camera. Just one would do. Different spot every day.