The stats about road deaths and young drivers.

[Brains]

Or.... we arrive at the logical conclusion that there are already enough drivers on the road and only let another one on when an existing driver dies or hangs up their driving gloves forever.

Join the back of the queue kids!

Singapore uses a similar system, they issue a fixed number of car tax discs per year based on the amount of miles of road they have. the then sell off the discs every month to the highest bidders at an eBay type auction.

It's a very effective way of ensuring that the car population remains static and that only drivers who can afford to drive do so.

all the money raised is put into the public transport system and road maintenance

 

[Arch]

OK, I took the other practice test and got 48. Again, I was too cautious in one case and guessed wrong (how far behind your car should you place an emergency triangle?), and in the other, I felt the question wasn't completely clear, but I can see where I went wrong and misunderstood....

I'd also like to see more public information on TV, reminding people of the Highway Code, and good practice. I fear a huge proportion of drivers never look at the Highway Code again once they've passed their test, and in some cases new signs or rules will come in and they'll never know - how many drivers have any idea of what an ASL is, or what cycle lane rules are. I'm fairly sure ASLs didn't exist when I took my test, and cycle lanes were very rare, if they existed at all.

 

[Night Train]

+1 to all of that. Although somebody is bound to say that it will unworkable and too costly and against a drivers human rights.

The thing is there are plenty of skilled jobs where you have to be regularly retrained and tested to maintain a qualification for the job. Driving should be the same, and especially so for those who drive as part of their jobs.

 

[Tiberius Baltar]

Well I'm really pleased this has been taken quite seriously and objectively on here its refreshing to read all the intelligent and courteous remarks.

I don't think insurance prices are the way to solve this problem though as insurance companies seem to be a bit gung ho with thier quotes (I won't scare you with how much my taxi costs to keep insured)!

I like the idea of a badge or logo which makes new drivers stand out and which enforces them to keep to different restrictions but as has been said above, do the police have enough time to start watching for this too?

I do however think that the majority of us agree that the current system is inadequate and something needs to be done to change behaviour and attitudes to your fellow man/woman when out and about on the roads.

 

[snorri]

something needs to be done to change behaviour and attitudes

This is surely the crux of the problem, and we seem to be as far away as ever from any form of mental aptitude testing.

 

[Night Train]

I do however think that the majority of us agree that the current system is inadequate and something needs to be done to change behaviour and attitudes to your fellow man/woman when out and about on the roads.

If this happened, and driver attitude and behavior was spot on, then the driving test would need only be instructional on how to operate a vehicle and understanding of the laws.

It is the crux of it though, finding ways to have people behave appropriately and with the right attitude to life and others.

 

[marinyork]

This is surely the crux of the problem, and we seem to be as far away as ever from any form of mental aptitude testing.

It's an interesting theoretical idea and very badly needed, but how would you test for it? To save money it'd probably be along the lines of the current theory or hazard perception test in an automated form and then those behaviours can be learned to an extent. If it was infront of a human being you might have a chance but the cost would sky rocket. It would run into the same subjective problems that the modern competency test does in interviews. If it was in front of trained psychologists the cost would go into orbit and might involve observing people over a weekend. Driving test away weekend anyone? Maybe not so bad an idea and not too dissimilar to Mickle's. Really the problem is you'd need a blind system where they were unaware of being observed or that it was for such a long amount of time that eventually the supressed behaviours would come through anyway or be tempted out of them. It doesn't suit mass deployment - it is fine doing it for 1/2/3 groups, but repeatability and for a very large sample ruins the surprise. If every job interview in the land was more or less identical, people would learn the behaviours very quickly!

The other possible system would be a reference system (actually like we still have with other state things) but the problem with that would it would be wide open to abuse. Or nominations or a local vote.

A third option would be a kind of 3rd umpire type scenario with hours of video footage of them learning to drive could be accumulated and assessed. This would have its limitations though.

They are all costly though.

 

[gbb]

It'd be interesting to compare the amount of young drivers killed in say the 70s and 80s compared to today. Fatalities overall have fallen considerably in the last couple of decades, so have inexperienced drivers actually got worse...
I dont know what the answer is re young drivers attitudes, i'm not sure much has changed in 30 years.
I started driving at 17 in the mid 70s. I drove (to be frank) like a fkin idiot, foot to the floor, like every trip was a race. Plenty of my mates did as well.
Why ?...i cant answer that, i always was and still am, sensible and decent in every other way. I dont drive fast anymore, but i do everything else hell for leather (not literally, but i do most things fast)..perhaps thats why, i ride my bike like its a race, i NEVER ride slow, if i try, i realise five minutes later, i'm pushing along again. I work fast, i walk fast, i seem to have this mentality to get things done efficiently and quickly. I think of myself as a fast burner...perhaps thats all it is that makes people drive fast.

Then, compare cars from my era to today...60mph was about it for us in our clapped out minis and anglias...while today, even a Corsa or similar is capable of 100mph, 80 mph easily. I made this point in another discussion a few weeks ago about cars...most cars are capable of doing 80mph, comfortably. Now try emergency stopping at 80 mph or steering quickly...you've got little chance of doing it safely in most standard cars, you'll be all over the place.

So, is it teenagers have got worse, or is it partly (or even mostly) that cars are even more capable of high speeds, but are useless when it comes to high speed cornering or braking. Even my 57 plate Focus, nice and agile around town, is pretty soft when cornering at any moderately high speed, the front end burys itself and understeers. Bloody useless.

 

[gbb]

There is the technology available now that allows the insurance companies to monitor young drivers,(forgive me, i dont know what its called) but basically a black box in the car that monitors speed, braking, cornering etc...they get a very good idea of your habits. Its used now to reduce premiums on the grounds you can prove you drive sensibly.
So reverse the idea, fit it compulsorily to all young drivers cars...the leary drivers will soon be identified...and will pay.

 

[CopperCyclist]

Combine the black box idea with enforcement. Make it compulsory for drivers having just passed their test - whatever age - to have a black box for three years. It'll remain untouched if that driver has no problems, thus reducing costs in auditing it etc. However should the driver suffer any fine (speeding, mobile etc) or be involved in any accident, then it can and will be reviewed, and any other recorded incidents of speeding or mobile use (some of the black boxes film the driver) equal a disqualification for a set period, one year perhaps.

Make the black boxes optional after the three year period, in the hope insurance companies would lower quotes for people voluntarily using them.

 

[Over The Hill]

Problem I see is that most drivers see it that they have been granted a right to drive rather than a licence.
Despite all the modern technology we still have people out on the road doing almost whatever they like with no comeback: police presence on the roads is almost non existant now.
While it certainly is a particular problem with younger drivers you do have a hard job trying to get drivers of all ages to accept speed and risk are linked.
Also we really cannot pick on young drivers and subject them to something older ones have not done. There are bad drivers of all ages. After all, young drivers have all passed a much harder test than we ever had and many are good sensible drivers like drivers of any age.

 

[Tiberius Baltar]

we really cannot pick on young drivers and subject them to something older ones have not done. There are bad drivers of all ages. After all, young drivers have all passed a much harder test than we ever had and many are good sensible drivers like drivers of any age.

I appreciate your point on this but as I stated when starting this thread, the news report was highlighting a quite large proportion of road fatalities was due to young inexperienced drivers. So what can be done as a civilised society with a responsibility to preserve and educate to get these new drivers to take stock of their driving habits.

Can you imagine being the parent of a young man or woman who had been killed in a crash when it was their friends car? Such a tragic waste of a young life.

 

[tyred]

The one I always note while cycling is that the young male drivers which are supposed to be the high risk group give me all the room in the world when overtaking. They might be going fast but they are respectful. Just about all my near misses with cars have been with middle aged or elderly drivers who usually pass with a few inches to spare and most of the time don't appear to look where they are going.

 

[ColinJ]

I was nearly killed by a young, foolish driver...

A friend of mine called round in his estate car 2 hours after passing his driving test, aged 18. Another friend was just about to cycle home so we chucked his bike in the back of the vehicle and drove him home along some country lanes NW of Coventry. The newly-qualified driver was overconfident and was soon doing 60 mph and I realised that he was going way too fast. I was just about to warn him when he lost control on a tightening bend and overshot it. We were incredibly lucky in that there just happened to be a clear muddy area there leading to a farm track which we skidded on to and we came to rest about 6 inches from a telegraph pole. Either side of where we stopped was a deep ditch.

This was 1974, before airbags and compulsory seatbelts. A few more mph or a couple of feet either way and we would probably have been seriously injured or killed.