Thin tyres on rough trails
- Thread starter jimboalee
- Start date
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PpPete
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chandler's Ford
This thread started with the following:
Seems to me it's merely caused more un-necessary argument!
Frankly .. the definition of "rough" is irrelevant. We all have our own individual limits as to where we'd take our own road bikes. Mine happen to be a lot "rougher" than those pictured above, but then I'm another old fart who grew up before the invention of the MTB, and I certainly wouldn't dream of slagging off anyone who has different standards.
jimboalee said:
Seems to me it's merely caused more un-necessary argument!
Frankly .. the definition of "rough" is irrelevant. We all have our own individual limits as to where we'd take our own road bikes. Mine happen to be a lot "rougher" than those pictured above, but then I'm another old fart who grew up before the invention of the MTB, and I certainly wouldn't dream of slagging off anyone who has different standards.
Yup, we're living on different planets.
The webpage I posted wasn't Googled, it is off the Land Rover internal Gaydon Proving Ground pages.
Limestone chip and 1" potholes is "Rough".
What you might call 'rough' is probably what we call "Rutted".
What you might call 'Rutted', we might call "Ploughed".
What you might call 'ploughed', we might call "Jungle".
Tarmacadam or concrete with 1/4" variations is "Moderate rough"
Tarmacadam with defined grit in tar "Moderate smooth"
Tarmacadam that has been rolled so you can brush your bare hand on it, is "Smooth"
There is "Engineering brick" whick is neatly set blue bricks.
There is also "Belgium Pave" which is loaf-of-bread sized stones arranged in a block formation.
There is "Random brick". No prizes for visualising this.
Collectively, they are called 'Sets' and Motor vehicle testers use them to assess suspension and handling.
Go and have a look at the road at the back of Moor St Car park ( Allison St ) and you'll see "Cobbles".
Mark_Robson
Senior Member
- Location
- West Boldon Tyne & Wear
I rode the keelmans way cycle route from South Shields to Prudhoe and back last month. It's a mixture of B roads, tarmac and compressed limestone, and I did it on a full carbon road bike running on 23mm tires.
A lot of cycle paths are in much better condition than B roads and are kinder to your bike. IMO it's silly pigeon holing bikes to surfaces, just use your common sense and decide what is best for you.
A lot of cycle paths are in much better condition than B roads and are kinder to your bike. IMO it's silly pigeon holing bikes to surfaces, just use your common sense and decide what is best for you.
I went on an Audax once where the route took a bridleway. It had been raining.
I took my shoes and socks off, picked up my bike and carried it through the mire.
At the end of the bridleway, I washed my feet down with blackcurrent cordial from my bottle, dried them off and replaced my footwear.
On completing the ride, there were many bikes arrive with mud everywhere. On the stays, forks, rear mech and right up the mudguards.
There were some riders with brown stains down one arm of their jerseys.
Seems some of the most experienced cyclists have problems deciding if their bikes can handle 'rutted' and 'ploughed' lanes., so what hope has the newbie?
I took my shoes and socks off, picked up my bike and carried it through the mire.
At the end of the bridleway, I washed my feet down with blackcurrent cordial from my bottle, dried them off and replaced my footwear.
On completing the ride, there were many bikes arrive with mud everywhere. On the stays, forks, rear mech and right up the mudguards.
There were some riders with brown stains down one arm of their jerseys.
Seems some of the most experienced cyclists have problems deciding if their bikes can handle 'rutted' and 'ploughed' lanes., so what hope has the newbie?
User.
You are fighting a losing battle.
Every road vehicle manufacturer in the world, including lesser known Chinese and Indian bicycle makers, design their products according to internationally recognised road surface roughness grades which were determined by the motor industry.
If you were to say "The Camel Trail is very smooth and easy on the tyre in the main" at a bicycle design seminar, this would give a totally incorrect description to engineers at Motor and bicycle research studios.
Within the industry, the Camel Trail surface is classified as "Third World", and therefore 'rough' in the nomenclature of vehicle designers.
I understand your predicament. I have a loathing of the term "Primary" when road positioning is discussed, but to conform to recognised standards in order for understanding, my own, deep seated prejudices are laid aside.
I argued the 'Primary' case once. But as I have witnessed, one person cannot change convention.
You are fighting a losing battle.
Every road vehicle manufacturer in the world, including lesser known Chinese and Indian bicycle makers, design their products according to internationally recognised road surface roughness grades which were determined by the motor industry.
If you were to say "The Camel Trail is very smooth and easy on the tyre in the main" at a bicycle design seminar, this would give a totally incorrect description to engineers at Motor and bicycle research studios.
Within the industry, the Camel Trail surface is classified as "Third World", and therefore 'rough' in the nomenclature of vehicle designers.
I understand your predicament. I have a loathing of the term "Primary" when road positioning is discussed, but to conform to recognised standards in order for understanding, my own, deep seated prejudices are laid aside.
I argued the 'Primary' case once. But as I have witnessed, one person cannot change convention.
Here's my OP again..
"To end the debate on width of tyres for canal tow paths and cycle trails.
Jimbo took his Dawes Giro with 23mm UltraGatorskins at 110 psi the whole length of the Camel trail from Padstow to Bodmin ( and back ).
No problems whatsoever.
Averaged 12 mph for the return trip.
I hate taking my bikes on crushed limestone, pot-holed paths as the rear end gets covered in white limestone dust and it knackers chains, but what the hey, chains are only £20... "
Here's my second post again..
"The point of my message was...
If there comes a point where traversing a rough path is necessary ( through choice in my situation ), 23mm tyres should not suffer any undue P*******s due to the rough terrain.
I was riding on a Brooks B17 , which gave me an uneasy thump on a couple of occasions.
TBH, there's a section of the B4100 that is rougher than the Camel Trail.... "
BTW, my name is not "Jimmy", Paulie.
The Camel Trail is typical of the surfaces laid down on Canal tow paths and other trails.
Nowhere have I mentioned the term "off road", which IMO, is where your mind is hung up.
There have been newbies on this forum asking about tyre widths for canal tow paths and limestone cycle trails.
My OP says 23mm UltraGatorskins coped admirably with that type of surface.
It was when I described the Camel Trail as 'rough' ( in the professional context, which you don't seem to be able to learn ) you interjected with an uneducated statement.
The Camel Trail is not 'smooth', and it is not 'rutted'. I have shown pictures of the surface type - 'third world track' which is "rough".
If you insist on using your own surface grading scale ( and any other self appointed measurement system that we are unaware of ), don't be surprised if others on this chatboard distrust your statements in the future.
Then what is it, a drag strip or a motorcross track?
The Camel Trail is a cycle trail. It has been surfaced to Council requirements. Why would it not be typical of a cycle trail?
As for confusing matters; the whole world and readers of CycleChat anyway, are now aware of why, when and how road surface texture was graded and where the international standards are to be found.
When EVERYBODY gets a grasp of the standards, we can talk without arguing about it.
betty swollocks
large member
Mountainbikes were invented (some debate here) 30 -ish years ago. Before that cyclists went everywhere on bikes with thin or thin-ish tyres.
It was crap as far as I was concerned.
A cycle trail that is surfaced with a material that 'dusts up' and accelerates wear of bicycle components is poor planning, or just cheap.
Considering 99.9% of its users are holidaymakers on rented bikes, who cares.
Its like Tiddy Oggys labeled 'Steak'. Only tourists eat them so what's the point in wasting expensive steak when there's plenty of cheap spuds.
And what's more, we stood eating our ice creams for half an hour opposite Rick Stein's chippy. It took longer for the bloke at the back of the queue to get served. Then his cod and chips were £1.60 more expensive than the little chippy in the town. Does a slice of lemon cost £1.60?
In Wadebridge, we ( two of us ) went into a coffee shop. I asked for "A cappuchino coffee please", intending to have a bottle of diet coke for myself. She made two, seeing we were a couple and I would relent to buy the 'mistaken' extra coffee.
I said "I only asked for one. I was going to have a diet coke, but I will go to the newsagent across the street for it instead." And gave her the price of the single cappo'.
Back to the Camel Trail. There is one section between two heaps of slate scree. A sign warns riders of danger. Children were clambering on the heap and slate fragments were sliding onto the trail thoroughfare. The surface changed suddenly from that of 'rough' to 'loose'.
The only tarmaced part I can remember was the lane to the sewerage works. Get that on PhewTube
youngoldbloke
The older I get, the faster I used to be ...
BigSteev said:Just out of interest, what would thisrate as?
- about the same as many of the ('paved') lanes around here in W Wilts - its not part of cycle route 17 is it?
