This is utopia for a commuter

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steveindenmark

Legendary Member
I live in Denmark and what you see in the clip is the norm, except it is obviously a lot busier in CPH. As cyclists we are top of the pecking order when it comes to road users and it works very well.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
I’m sure many of you are aware of Copenhagenize.com. I was catching up at lunchtime and this blog “Three Design Elements For Safer Intersections” really highlighted how far the UK has to progress, and what bliss this would make commuting by bike. No aggro between cyclist and motorist; no helmets; no Lycra and no rush.
And these are the challenges in the UK:

Set back stop-lines - highways authorities are terrified of anything that even slightly reduces junction capacity and this would shorten all queue capacities by one car per lane, while reducing the risk of killing people is seen as some arty-farty nebulous thing, so it gets rejected most times it's requested. Go look at the last round of Cycle City Ambition (CCA) Grant projects and see how many set-back stop lines were installed.

Dedicated bicycle signals - this is actually possible now and a few cities did use them as part of their CCA grants, but in general, they're not installed, citing cost of installing extra lights and extra channels in the signal controllers.

Blue cycle crossing guides - again, completely possible now, but rarely used and I think it's because it's an extra maintenance cost if the road is repaired, resurfaced or repainted.

Have the safety benefits of any of those been quantified? It's not linked in the Copenhagenize post so they're nice ideas but it probably won't help get much further asking for them.
 
OP
OP
CharlesF

CharlesF

Guru
Location
Glasgow
And these are the challenges in the UK:

Set back stop-lines - highways authorities are terrified of anything that even slightly reduces junction capacity and this would shorten all queue capacities by one car per lane, while reducing the risk of killing people is seen as some arty-farty nebulous thing, so it gets rejected most times it's requested. Go look at the last round of Cycle City Ambition (CCA) Grant projects and see how many set-back stop lines were installed.

Dedicated bicycle signals - this is actually possible now and a few cities did use them as part of their CCA grants, but in general, they're not installed, citing cost of installing extra lights and extra channels in the signal controllers.

Blue cycle crossing guides - again, completely possible now, but rarely used and I think it's because it's an extra maintenance cost if the road is repaired, resurfaced or repainted.

Have the safety benefits of any of those been quantified? It's not linked in the Copenhagenize post so they're nice ideas but it probably won't help get much further asking for them.

I haven't anything on their website quantifying the benefits; but from a layman's point of view they do make sense and should be trialled.
 
What I notice post is patience. None of the drivers seemed to be rushing or racing ahead. Similarly didn't see a strava-ites rushing through the other cyclists either.

Seems like a totally different culture to road usage over there.
 
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OP
CharlesF

CharlesF

Guru
Location
Glasgow
I work a lot of the time Leiden and the Dutch are the same. But I often despair at the state of their bikes, rusty chains, rattles and I even saw one being ridden with two flat tyres. I suppose as long as it gets you where you are going.....
 
And these are the challenges in the UK:

Set back stop-lines - highways authorities are terrified of anything that even slightly reduces junction capacity and this would shorten all queue capacities by one car per lane, while reducing the risk of killing people is seen as some arty-farty nebulous thing, so it gets rejected most times it's requested. Go look at the last round of Cycle City Ambition (CCA) Grant projects and see how many set-back stop lines were installed.

Dedicated bicycle signals - this is actually possible now and a few cities did use them as part of their CCA grants, but in general, they're not installed, citing cost of installing extra lights and extra channels in the signal controllers.

Blue cycle crossing guides - again, completely possible now, but rarely used and I think it's because it's an extra maintenance cost if the road is repaired, resurfaced or repainted.

Have the safety benefits of any of those been quantified? It's not linked in the Copenhagenize post so they're nice ideas but it probably won't help get much further asking for them.

I think the main reason nothing like these are implemented is due to the incompetence of the people running this country. They are phenomenally useless and obsessed with red tape bollox. Essentially the Judean Peoples Front of GB, our government is incapable of doing anything properly. Look at the NHS, road maintenance, immigration policy, benefits, prison sentences. All are plagued by problems with the catch all excuse of lack of funding. I would expect the same rubbishness if they did try to implement those mentioned features. The blue cycle cross guides would end up on the pavement!
 

steveindenmark

Legendary Member
The excuse often used in the UK is that you don't have the space for cycle paths. But in Denmark hey will dig up verges and use the edge of farmers fields. How that works, I have no idea. When they build new roads or estates, the cycle path is one of the first things that go in.

There is also those people who would not use cycle paths if they were silky smooth and bikes had right of way.

There are bikes left all over Denmark and they are in good nick. Not like those in Holland. We were in Amsterdam and noticed that some of the locks were worth more than the bikes they were locking up.

The difference between cycling in Denmark and the UK is that the bike is not only a sporting pastime, it is a genuine form of transport for commuting and outings. In Copenhagen the majority of families don't have cars, they have bikes.
 
A bit weird this as I don't believe in coincidences. However I study mechanical design engineering with the open university. And while my speciality is obviously mechanical design and structures. I have to read a variety of subjects surrounding design and innovation to have a well rounded knowledge.

Well current topic is about innovation for change. How products, services or system innovations change society or vice versa. The case study for systems is........ Wait for it....... Copenhagen transport network! So I have been reading about this for the last few days now. Obviously @steveindenmark will know more and better as he has first hand experience. But I will try to summarise what appears to be some major differences.

Their is an acknowledgement from their government that all forms of transport need to exist. They haven't legislated cars out of the town. Or priced people onto bicycles. Nor have they reduced car lane capacity to favour bicycles. Merely catered to fix the most pressing congestion issue which was cycles.

In various videos in the course material (interviewee was a city architect) acknowledge various issues with cyclists too. Issues with cycle parking interfering with pedestrians. But instead of introducing fines and penalties. They install cycle parking in the most popular places to encourage cyclists to be more considerate in problem areas. Instead of punishing the symptom they instead chose to fix the core issue of lack of cycle parking in popular areas and fix the cause.

They also noted cyclists weren't patient enough to stop for pedestrians crossing the cycle route at bus stops. So instead of painting a thousand give ways. They widened the bus stop islands to give pedestrians safe refugee to disembark and then wait to cross instead of forcing them into a live cycle route.

They ackowledge that cyclists feel there's a rhythm to cycling and dislike stopping and staring. So apparently traffic light timings are set so that cycles travelling at 20kph should not need to ever stop at a red light.

It seems that instead of legislating. Introducing unenforceable penalties and painting pointless lines they actually address the causes of traffic issues and make it naturally more welcoming to cycle.

There's also a wider infrastructure that makes it easier to live with a bicycle. Busses allow bicycles. Also taxis have bicycle racks on the back too. So you don't "need" to own a car for your weekly shop. You could cycle to the store do your shopping, the get a taxi home as they can bring the bicycle too.

Seems like a bit of a utopia for a city life rather than just cycling.
 
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