Threat of violence this a.m. - not sure how to react

[scouserinlondon]

Possible off topic warning here, but I'll bite! If you specifically place the D-Lock on your handlebars knowing that you will use it as a weapon to defend yourself if necessary, then you are guilty of possessing an offensive weapon. It's different if in the heat of the moment when threatened you arm yourself with something that you hadn't previously considered using as a weapon. Yes I know it's tricky to prove - unless the police dredge up a forum post or something

Yeah and I can't fit my D lock on my bars any more because the shot gun just takes up too much space.

 

[Hip Priest]

What kind of world do we live in where people think it necessary to arm themselves for a bike ride?

 

[EthelF]

Indeed. I have no intention of placing my d lock on my handlebars. If that is what cycling is coming to I have no business taking my 2 year old out on the bike. Or myself for that matter! I do not really think he will come after me with his beloved bat, but being quite distinctive and vulnerable with the trailer I am still concerned about some kind of comeback. So upon various recommendations I will report this imbecile as soon as I have reviewed the evidence I have on video on a bigger screen back home.

And in the mean time I will desist from all potentially ambiguous hand signals (and all unambiguous negative ones too!).

 

[Cubist]

Indeed. I have no intention of placing my d lock on my handlebars. If that is what cycling is coming to I have no business taking my 2 year old out on the bike. Or myself for that matter! I do not really think he will come after me with his beloved bat, but being quite distinctive and vulnerable with the trailer I am still concerned about some kind of comeback. So upon various recommendations I will report this imbecile as soon as I have reviewed the evidence I have on video on a bigger screen back home.

And in the mean time I will desist from all potentially ambiguous hand signals (and all unambiguous negative ones too!).

Sound reasoning, well done. The bold bit is vital if you want to avoid confrontations.

 

[fossyant]

If you can get the reg from the video certainly report him, and make it very clear that you felt intimidated and threattened. If you can report it, the police officer will most likely 'help' you with the correct wording on the report.

Oh yes, even sticking your hand up can be mistaken by a driver (no fingers) - I know. How it can be seen as aggressive when there is less than 100 kg's of me, pannier and bike and 1500kg's of car with a powerful engine revving and inching towards you?

Hope you can extract the reg from the video.

 

[Mozzy]

Makes me ashamed to consider that we have human beings like this breathing the same air. I realise this is not a one-off, and similar must occur each and every day. My thoughts are with the OP and I sincerely hope and pray it works out OK for you.

WHY???????? I mean for fecks sake, all this bloody hatred; JEEZ I despair.

Mozzy

 

[Joseph]

This has left me wondering - exactly what is the correct way to defend one's self with a d lock? Grab onto the round end and swing around a bit hoping to hit something the ends of the bar/lock bit?

Mine is a kryptonite (something like http://www.kryptonitelock.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?cid=1001&scid=1000&pid=1203 ) - has lots of rubber covers on the bar bit.

 

[TwickenhamCyclist]

Possible off topic warning here, but I'll bite! If you specifically place the D-Lock on your handlebars knowing that you will use it as a weapon to defend yourself if necessary, then you are guilty of possessing an offensive weapon. It's different if in the heat of the moment when threatened you arm yourself with something that you hadn't previously considered using as a weapon. Yes I know it's tricky to prove - unless the police dredge up a forum post or something

years ago, when we were teenagers, a friend of mine was arrested at a bus stop for carrying an offensive weapon. He was later released without charge. The weapon: a bunch of keys he had hanging off one of those Pepe plastic belt clip key rings (it was the 80’s before the fashion police turn up)

We used to get “stopped and searched” (aka harassed) almost every night and this particular evening the police asked him what his keys were for (i think they used to ask us stupid questions just to provoke us into being cheeky – they asked me why i was standing at the bus stop and weren’t too happy with the “I’m waiting for a helicopter to take me home” reply, which I, at 17 or something, thought was pretty hilarious).

They were just a normal bunch of house keys – I think he told them they were for the safe at the Bank of England or something equally as daft...“ would you use them to hit someone if you got into a fight?” asked one of the plod, “i suppose I might” was the reply... and out came the handcuffs!

 

[Crankarm]

Impossible to know.

BM is talking sense.

Yeah you are dead right there, impossible for you to know, but I did, unless you ride a tardis or a crystal ball instead of a bike and you can now see it or saw it take place. You'll just have to take my word for it.

BM talking sense .................... .

 

[Crankarm]

Possible off topic warning here, but I'll bite! If you specifically place the D-Lock on your handlebars knowing that you will use it as a weapon to defend yourself if necessary, then you are guilty of possessing an offensive weapon. It's different if in the heat of the moment when threatened you arm yourself with something that you hadn't previously considered using as a weapon. Yes I know it's tricky to prove - unless the police dredge up a forum post or something

If you can cycle with a D-lock on your handlebars then you need certifying as it is positively dangerous. Anyway you are substantially altering the scenario that is being put forward. But then again the cops haven't always been diligent at establishing the facts of what has gone on nor right on the law and often made it up .

But don't ignore the fact that some one has just tried to kill you and is now escalating matters if they haven't managed to do so first or second time around.

 

[Crankarm]

Yeah and I can't fit my D lock on my bars any more because the shot gun just takes up too much space.

 

[Cyclopathic]

Doing the weapons thing with a D-lock is almost certainly not going to improve the situation in any way. It's much more likely that that will lead either to escalation, or to conviction/prison, or both.

I very much agree with this. Escalating the level of violence is never going to calm things down and the amount of times when it really is the case that someone is able to scare someone else off who really would have done them damage is absolutely negligable.

I used to be a doorman and am well used to volatile and potentialy violent and dangerous situations and in my considered opinion the best way out of a situation like this is to remain as calm as possible. If it happens that someone does come at you with a baseball bat then that is the time to possibly rethink the situation but it makes no sense at all to be the person in the altercation who is seeking to make it more serious. If you remain calm it is unlikely that someone will actualy hit you but if you start comming it all Johnny Big Potatoes it gives the other person a percieved justification in lashing out at you.

 

[Crankarm]

I very much agree with this. Escalating the level of violence is never going to calm things down and the amount of times when it really is the case that someone is able to scare someone else off who really would have done them damage is absolutely negligable.

I used to be a doorman and am well used to volatile and potentialy violent and dangerous situations and in my considered opinion the best way out of a situation like this is to remain as calm as possible. If it happens that someone does come at you with a baseball bat then that is the time to possibly rethink the situation but it makes no sense at all to be the person in the altercation who is seeking to make it more serious. If you remain calm it is unlikely that someone will actualy hit you but if you start comming it all Johnny Big Potatoes it gives the other person a percieved justification in lashing out at you.

Eh? We are not talking about this. No one has mentioned about making a situation more serious or suggesting that cyclists should ride around D-locking people that annoy them until the copper above implied it with his ridiculous scenario of having a D-lock mounted on the bicycle handle bars ready with the intention of using it on some one.

We are talking about a situation where some nutter in a vehicle has driven really aggressively toward a cyclist and his child(ren), has then decided to threaten to harm said cyclist and child with a baseball bat. Now forgive me for thinking this is extreme violence, but if absolutely and unavoidably necessary you are entitled to defend yourself if you can. The nutter who is wielding a baseball bat is a mortal threat to you and child. A single strike with a baseball bat can easily kill. You are allowed in law to defend yourself IF you choose to. If you run you may well be chased, it has happened. The plods and cps have form in making really perverse decisions arresting those who have quite reasonably tried to defend themselves where attackers have died or suffered serious injury, but now this is starting to change at last due to recent court cases. I am not advocating cycling around swinging a D-lock at all and sundry who you feel is wearing the wrong colour of hoody or Reebok trainers or who drives one inch from your elbow. The OP posted a rather nasty account of what happened to him and understandably he is very nervous. But when you have an incident like this where you cannot rely on others to help you out or save you then what split decision you make can determine whether you live or die.

 

[dand_uk]

Hello,
On this morning's nursery run a cheerful soul threatened to teach me a lesson with a badeball bat. Now I am not sure how seriously to take this or how to react.

As I approached my son's nursery with on Beechcroft Rd SW17 (traffic calmed road with humps, parked cars reduce it to single track frequently, 2 schools along the road) the car behind the one behind me started sounding his horn aggressively and revving his engine - he clearly took umbrage at my slow speed and the car behind's refusal to overtake in the face of oncoming traffic. So as I pulled in to the nursery I gesticulated for him to calm down (in hindsight a mistake). The next thing I know he has stopped outside the nursery (blocking the road; oh the irony...) wanting to know why I had called him a w*nker! He then said that were it not for the child he'd get his baseball bat out to teach me a lesson. Ominously he added that he knows where to find me. Then he drove off.

I am not sure how seriously to take him. The problem is that there is no alternative route to the nursery. I need to use the same road at the same time every day. And the bike/Chariot trailer combination is VERY distinctive.
I captured most of the incident on my bar mounted video camera, but due to the range and angle the microphone did not pick up his threats, nor is the number plate visible. So not much point going to the police. Question is, do I ditch the bike for the next few days until he has (hopefully) calmed down? Or is he likely to be all bluster? I am seriously considering getting another camera to mount on the trailer facing backwards anyway.

Meanwhile, if you see an oik in a hoodie driving a silver Skoda Fabia in sw London, be on your guard!

Sorry, rambling a bit now.

DJ

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Sorry to hear about your misadventure on the road. I had a similar braindead motorist this morning but he didn't bother to get out or speak and I ignored the revving.

Best thing to do is carry on cycling and try to forgot what happened. Idiots will be idiots but luckily 9 out of 10 motorists are not idiots.

Also +1 for getting the reg plate next time.

 

[Lurker]

Sounds horrible. As well as the Safer Neighbourhood Team route, why not Roadsafe this incident? https://secure.met.police.uk/roadsafelondon/